Head Weight

David

David

Administrator
Staff member
I know in ballroom you hear people talk about head weight, but do you ever think of using it in Salsa?
I do. For example on a cross body lead, I stretch my head a little bit away from the lady and it helps get a stronger momentum effect yet staying light with the lead.
 
David said:
I know in ballroom you hear people talk about head weight, but do you ever think of using it in Salsa?
I do. For example on a cross body lead, I stretch my head a little bit away from the lady and it helps get a stronger momentum effect yet staying light with the lead.
Click to expand...


Geoffrey Hearns theory...
 
David said:
I know in ballroom you hear people talk about head weight, but do you ever think of using it in Salsa?
I do. For example on a cross body lead, I stretch my head a little bit away from the lady and it helps get a stronger momentum effect yet staying light with the lead.
Click to expand...

it might look funny though
 
I have a book of Geoff Hearn where head weight subject is briefly described and a DVD named Highlighting Head Weight. Actually never checked them until now, since I'm rarely dancing ballroom now. I'm not sure that I'm getting correctly what's in the book, because typical ballroom terminology is used, but from what I understand and from what's demonstrated on the video, head weight is meant as integral part of shaping/sways that are used in b/room standard. Mostly role of the lady is described - she should turn her head (weight) naturally according to the shape given by the man, so if it is sway/shape to left, head turns to left, if it is to right, head turns to right. Similar rule applies to the man, but there is much less shaping, hence much less head movement for the man. Anyway, as a general rule, line of the head should follow the line of the spine, so no broken necks and similar things

It's somewhat similar to rules for the shaping in zouk - actually exercise given in the DVD is similar to some exercises we did in zouk classes.

However, all these things are connected with swinging actions used in dances like ballroom standard. In salsa and ballroom latin, we don't have that, but we have cuban motion, which is a different kind of body movement, where head is relatively statical, so these things are not really applicable. So in CBL for instance, chest and hips (depending on the standing leg on particular beat) should be parts of the body of leader and follower that go further apart to create tension and not head

Anyway, I also sometimes play with swing-style shaping in salsa, for instance when leading backspot turn I like to make some shape to the right, changing to the left when lady passes to my right side. I've seen some other (non-ballroom) guys doing that and I liked it, although it is not a kind of cuban motion I suppose ...but considering that there are some elements of WCS and hustle in xbody salsa, I suppose that some amount of these things can be used from time to time, depending on the music and the partner ... some girls like this and some don't. However, it's always shaping of the whole body and not throwing just the head into some direction, just like cuban motion isn't throwing hips into some direction like some believe it is - both look weird
 
vit said:
Anyway, I also sometimes play with swing-style shaping in salsa, for instance when leading backspot turn I like to make some shape to the right, changing to the left when lady passes to my right side.
Click to expand...


Yea, and conversely if we bring our head "in" too much on a Back Spot turn there is less centrifugal force and the step can almost feel wrong.
 
I'll try to illustrate what I mean. So this is something like usual version of backspot turn, where posture of the leader is essentially upright


Version with usage of some shaping/inclination of the body can look for instance like this


This is probably not the best example, actually I'm not sure that I like the style of this guy (it's possible that he is WCS dancer) and I'm not suggesting to do it this way , but I couldn't find better one right now. However, it's another way to do the same move (and some other moves). Difference is that he is actually doing a hook turn, staying almost at the same place (unlike in the first clip) and leading the lady around him (that could be the reason why similar move in WCS and jive is called the whip), and since there is a lot of centrifugal force when doing it that way, he is using inclination of his body (not only head) to balance it

One of the problems is that this way of leading isn't really compatible with cuban movement that should be present to some extent at least in a good salsa dancing. But on the other side, spins are also not compatible with cuban motion and there is usually a lot of spins in xbody salsa, so it's questionable which of these two things is bigger detraction from cuban roots ...
 
vit said:
I'll
(that could be the reason why similar move in WCS and jive is called the whip), and since there is a lot of centrifugal force when doing it that way, he is using inclination of his body (not only head) to balance it

One of the problems is that this way of leading isn't really compatible with cuban movement .

.
Click to expand...

The " whip " action is caused by the opening and closing of the bodies, which the video really doesnt display .

And, that way of " leading?", I doubt is compatible with anything !!
 
I checked a number of clips saved on my disk and backspot turn was used very rarely, so the second clip is closest to what I was trying to show from what I could find. As I said, I also think it's not the best possible example of one of alternative versions.

However, when done with good connection and without using much force, it feels quite nice
 
terence said:
The " whip " action is caused by the opening and closing of the bodies, which the video really doesnt display.
Click to expand...

Terence, can you explain the detail about opening and closing of the bodies in the whip action?
Whip we were dancing in jive looks similar to this

 
vit said:
Terence, can you explain the detail about opening and closing of the bodies in the whip action?
Whip we were dancing in jive looks similar to this

Click to expand...

Shortly after the rotation commences, the man " releases" the lady to an arms length position, then recovers her back to the original hold. This variation, was one of the WCS staples.
The other technical difference is this... the man does not cross behind but closes, l to r.. or ..r to l , depending upon directional rotation .
 
vit said:
..
Version with usage of some shaping/inclination of the body can look for instance like this


This is probably not the best example, actually I'm not sure that I like the style of this guy (it's possible that he is WCS dancer) and I'm not suggesting to do it this way , but I couldn't find better one right now. However, it's another way to do the same move (and some other moves). Difference is that he is actually doing a hook turn, staying almost at the same place (unlike in the first clip) and leading the lady around him (that could be the reason why similar move in WCS and jive is called the whip), and since there is a lot of centrifugal force when doing it that way, he is using inclination of his body (not only head) to balance it.
Click to expand...

I like his style, what's his name? Why do you think, Terence, that this leading style is incompatible? I think it's very simple and it just requires for both partners to listen to the music and for follow to maintain the slot orientation.
 
vit said:
One of the problems is that this way of leading isn't really compatible with cuban movement that should be present to some extent at least in a good salsa dancing.

But on the other side, spins are also not compatible with cuban motion and there is usually a lot of spins in xbody salsa, so it's questionable which of these two things is bigger detraction from cuban roots ...
Click to expand...

As you point out, not everything one dances, is compatible with CM.
But there again, many styles deviate, to a greater or lesser degree, from the roots of the genre .
 
Yes, his name is written in the description of that youtube video. Guy is from Huston

So, opinions about dancing that way (or some other slightly unusual way) are divided on the forum - just like in my venue. Some people like it and some not
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top