Has your local salsa scene contracted over the last few years?

[Offbeat]

Agree.

There are a lot of new people in salsa scene. There are more people in teams than before and more teams. Quality of intermediate and advance dancers has however come down a bit, as many good ones don't come out that often.

Kizomba and Bachata has also grown a lot, but not at expense of salsa.

Seven years later it is hard to tell if the scene has contracted. I think it has neither grown larger nor smaller (salsa only). However the fresh crowd entering the scene is at slower pace.

Kizomba died due to fights and politics. Bachata had grown a lot, probably twice or more.

 

[1derpalm]

I'd estimate 55 % Salsa Dura, 35 % Bachata (no pop remixes) 5 % Reggaeton, 5 % Salsaton/Timbaton/Pop-Salsa.

Hmm..
I'd rather 21.3% salsaton/timbaton and 18.7% bachata.

 

[DJ Yuca]

Hmm..
I'd rather 21.3% salsaton/timbaton and 18.7% bachata.

Just keep your calculator handy. Kraftwerk style.

 

[1derpalm]

Just keep your calculator handy. Kraftwerk style.

I used to frequent a goth club in the late 90s and the dj played an amazing updated version by them. I didn't put 2&2 together that I loved kraftwerk since I was 7 (Breakin' broom dance scene) and the music in Winter games (freeskating event) for C64 was an "homage" to Autobahn. And of course "Sprockeys" used Electric Cafe.
Kraftwerk rules.

 

[Chris_Yannick]

Current state of my local scene as of 2026:

The linear scene has taken a nosedive. This country (yes I can genralize as there is no linear scene anywhere else in the country) is simply allergic to the term 'Mambo'. Also, zero effort to build a scene outside of a few token classes that amount to nothing.

Everything else has remained relatively consistent with Sensual dancing and Cuban Salsa. This country loves the Status quo.

 

[MamboJazz]

The most obvious trend in Switzerland / southwest Germany: Kizomba is on a nosedive, compared to pre-covid it has definitely contracted. It's obvious to see in all time-tables in all dance schools and festivals, even the Kizomba teacher admitted it to me. I guess it stays strong in Paris and Portugal, but apart from that it's no more a threat to the EU salsa scene. That was different 12 years ago as one can re-read in the beginning of this thread.

Linear salsa stays strong in Switzerland, even mambo, and cuban as well it seems. But the country is an island of stability anyway, so maybe not that meaningful for what happens in other regions.

Bachata sensual is number one in europe, but it runs danger to disintegrate into different styles. There are already festivals with separate rooms for sensual / bachazouk / influence. So that may eventually lead to separate scenes like in salsa.

Zouk is on the rise because it is overwhelming the huge bachata scene in form of so-called bachazouk. But bachata trends in europe come and go fast so that may be over again in three years.

WCS is growing strong in northern europe. They target the same youngster group as bachata, but overlap is nearly not existing: the cultures are too different. The nerdy ones go WCS and the girls looking for sexyness contest go bachata. And no dance school teaches both. Parallel universes.

 

[sunsoul]

I heard that salsa is strong in Germany. I may go over to Berlin late summer because there a ton of outdoor events dotted around everywhere. My friends say it is great in the summer..

I think salsa is stable, overall.

I just saw a zouk event advertised in Barcelona. A few female friends are going to that. You have to apply to get in! High level dancers only..

 

[bailar y tocar]

I heard that salsa is strong in Germany. I may go over to Berlin late summer because there a ton of outdoor events dotted around everywhere. My friends say it is great in the summer..

That would be good news if true. Before covid, Berlin had a lot of salsa nights and several outdoor events. I got to do several of them in 2015. After covid in 2022 the scene was way down. Maybe some places and promoters came back for more.

 

[Chris_Yannick]

Linear salsa stays strong in Switzerland, even mambo, and cuban as well it seems. But the country is an island of stability anyway, so maybe not that meaningful for what happens in other regions.

Must be nice to be in a stable scene where there is consistent demand for the style you dance the most.

WCS is growing strong in northern europe. They target the same youngster group as bachata, but overlap is nearly not existing: the cultures are too different.

That has always made me secretly jealous of the WCS scene that they were never affected by dances like Bachata or Kizomba. Also Tango, which remains an island in itself no matter where you are.

 

[1derpalm]

Current state of my local scene as of 2026:

The linear scene has taken a nosedive. This country (yes I can genralize as there is no linear scene anywhere else in the country) is simply allergic to the term 'Mambo'. Also, zero effort to build a scene outside of a few token classes that amount to nothing.

Everything else has remained relatively consistent with Sensual dancing and Cuban Salsa. This country loves the Status quo.

So.. i should move to Poland (sensual bachata here too).

 

[Chris_Yannick]

So.. i should move to Poland (sensual bachata here too).

I'd think you'd enjoy being within striking distance to Cuba. But if you want Casino (or the bastardized version of it), then you can't really go wrong with Eastern Europe.

Btw, Lisandra is here now giving classes.

 

[sunsoul]

That would be good news if true. Before covid, Berlin had a lot of salsa nights and several outdoor events. I got to do several of them in 2015. After covid in 2022 the scene was way down. Maybe some places and promoters came back for more.

Some of these events are salsa/bachata but basically a lot of people dancing salsa.

 

[Offbeat]

That has always made me secretly jealous of the WCS scene that they were never affected by dances like Bachata or Kizomba. Also Tango, which remains an island in itself no matter where you are.

That’s because no one tries to poach from WCS and Tango.

Tango is like a fortress. But it also repeals youngesters because they are so many oldies (40 plus) crowd at social dancing. It is not flashy either. Both WCS and Tango are 5x or 10x smaller than salsa.

Also it was salsa instructors and schools that added bachata, Kizomba, and zouk lessons to increase their revenue yes. From what I seen Tango and WCS instructors make far more money out of privates than salsa instructors do. It is almost an article of faith in both dances to continue to take privates.

 

[Offbeat]

So.. i should move to Poland (sensual bachata here too).

Why Poland?

Sensual was already killing salsa by 2017. The most popular salsa night had far more sensual dancers than salsa dancers. The new dancers were going to sensual classes than salsa classes.

 

[1derpalm]

Why Poland?

Sensual was already killing salsa by 2017. The most popular salsa night had far more sensual dancers than salsa dancers. The new dancers were going to sensual classes than salsa classes.

I have great cuban dances with polish women (in havana) and they're always really nice to me.
I don't have good cuban dances with the people in my larger social scene (toronto, and gta) with small exceptions, even with the Cubans.
But for so e ewason,in havna , I have far more acceptable to good dances with Cubans (even generally untrained) and people from all around the world (except the Scandinavians lol). Especially polish and Russians. I shoukd also say that they are the nicest to me, followed by some errant Mexican, Argentinean (especially), and Peruvians.

 

[Offbeat]

I have great cuban dances with polish women (in havana) and they're always really nice to me.

Like I have said at times if I were to rank followers from my experience it would be:

1. Russian/Ukranian
2. Romanian
3. Polish.

You are right about Polish followers. Among the above three they are the nicest and really very good dancers. It is just that there are far more very good Russian followers in absolute numbers than Polish.

I don't have good cuban dances with the people in my larger social scene (toronto, and gta) with small exceptions, even with the Cubans.

Depending on when they started dancing many in Europe (western, eastern, and central) first started with Cuban, then on1 and then on2. That probably changed in mid 2010s. After 2015/16, sensual likely became first dance many learnt. I would be curious how popular sensual is in Moscow or St Petersburg or Kiev. Until COVID I didn’t see any evidence of it being popular in Russia, though I could be wrong.

But for so e ewason,in havna , I have far more acceptable to good dances with Cubans (even generally untrained) and people from all around the world (except the Scandinavians lol).

What are Scandinavians doing wrong there is no one to defend them on SF!

Especially polish and Russians. I shoukd also say that they are the nicest to me, followed by some errant Mexican, Argentinean (especially), and Peruvians.

In general I found Europeans followers to be a lot nicer if I were to compare them to Americans. The more east you go in Europe the nicer they are. That is both - in dancing and without.

 

[eclo]

Its expanded but as SBK and now Z & whatever else that isnt salsa. So basically whilst the scene has grown salsa has contracted and contracted A LOT. Also the quality has nose dived, partly due to SBK & no one specialising anymore (jack of all trades master of none, very few SBK djs actually know decent salsa & timba ime.

There's also all sorts of competitive small scene drama & ego going on. One school pretty much has a monopoly and the scene is suffering because of this, no variety, no different perspectives or approaches, a borderline toxic social atmosphere if you're not associated with the school or in their clique. Some very underhand stuff has gone on with a long running events being pushed out, rival promoters being banned from WhatsApp groups for minor infractions of ridiculously convoluted rules etc.

So whilst the numbers appear healthy, under the surface it's not.