Has anyone ever noticed most dancers only are excellent at one thing?

S

SmallSteps3000

Changui
I don't know if it is just me but whenever I think of a dancer, I immediately associate them for the one facet of their dancing that they are damn near flawless at while not even thinking about the other parts of their dancing that doesn't even hold my attention.

For instance:

Frankie Martinez-- the first thing that comes to mind is body movement, never turn patterns

OR

Terry Taulitaut -- awesome at turn patterns, but not anything else.

OR


Franklin Diaz-- masterful at shines

OR

Maykel -- great at that Timba-style of body movement dancing


But I've never seen a Terry, Frankie/Maykel and Diaz all in one though!

Are all dancers similarly just doomed to only be perfect at just one aspect of their dancing and that's it?
 
I think Frankie is closest to an all in one of all the dancers you mentioned. Frankie can do complex turn patterns but generally chooses not to because the musicality of the pattern and its execution (i.e. Staying relaxed) are more important to him than fancy patterns that get lead and follow all tangled up in crazy pretzel knots. I dance with all kinds of different leads and I can tell you they those trained with Frankie or who dance with a focus on musicality and relaxation as opposed to complex patterns and tricks are the most enjoyable to dance with overall, rather than those who focus on body movement or patterns. At least for me.

I don't know that any salsa dancer is a true master of all trades though. Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses.
 
MAMBO_CEC said:
Actually the one thing that stands out for me, about all the dancers you mentioned is their incredible MUSICALITY.
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Yes-- I didn't want to put down "musicality" because I imagine at their level, having good musicality is the common denominator amongst leads-- but how that musicality is embodied -- ie through patterns, footwork, body movement, styling, etc.-- is really different.
 
SmallSteps3000 said:
I don't know if it is just me but whenever I think of a dancer, I immediately associate them for the one facet of their dancing that they are damn near flawless at while not even thinking about the other parts of their dancing that doesn't even hold my attention.

Are all dancers similarly just doomed to only be perfect at just one aspect of their dancing and that's it?
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Two completely separate things: one's perception of these dancers (which is of course majorly influenced by congress videos), and what their dancing is like in reality.

Going by your classification of shines, body movement, and patterns, all of the dancers you named are probably better than 95%+ of the international salsa scene at all those aspects. However, they each have one aspect* at which they are in the top 0.01% -- and since it is the nature of our perception to notice those aspects which make their dancing uniquely extraordinary, it is those top 0.01% aspects that will dominate our perception of each dancer, overriding their other qualities in our mind.


*For Frankie it is not just body movement, it is also footwork/shines and partnerwork that he excels at:


 
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SmallSteps3000 said:
I don't know if it is just me but whenever I think of a dancer, I immediately associate them for the one facet of their dancing that they are damn near flawless at while not even thinking about the other parts of their dancing that doesn't even hold my attention.

For instance:

Frankie Martinez-- the first thing that comes to mind is body movement, never turn patterns

OR

Terry Taulitaut -- awesome at turn patterns, but not anything else.

OR


Franklin Diaz-- masterful at shines

OR

Maykel -- great at that Timba-style of body movement dancing


But I've never seen a Terry, Frankie/Maykel and Diaz all in one though!

Are all dancers similarly just doomed to only be perfect at just one aspect of their dancing and that's it?
Click to expand...

You are assuming that if they are excellent at one thing then they are not at other. Choosing to emphasize one thing doesn't imply that they are not excellent at others. Since I only know about Frankie, more than other dancers above, I will agree with manzana that he is a good example of what you can call a complete dancer. Frankie has as good rumba body movement as Maykel (and he does a great impersonation of MF) and excels at shines better than Franklin I would say.

Complex turn pattern is not a mark of any dancer. You, I or anyone can learn to dance with complex turn patterns with enough practice (which requires a lot less effort than say doing shines, body movements, etc). There is an old video of Frankie (I think from 1999) showing him jumping around like a pattern monkey. On complex turn patterns - yes Terry does a lot of turn patterns, but I seen him in person dancing next to me a couple of slower tempo songs with good musicality and body movement, eschewing his trade mark patterns.

The names you mentioned are cut above most salsa celebrities/pros in the amount of effort and time they have put in to hone their craft. Maykel is a trained dancer from cuban dance academy, Frankie has almost devoted his life to dancing and music, Franklin is also a full time dancer and proficient in Flamenco, I don't know about Terry.

It would be a mistake to assume that excellence in one part implies absence in others. Your perception of someone's dancing is only based on what you see and judge. The reality may be very different.
 
Sabrosura said:
Two completely separate things: one's perception of these dancers, and what their dancing is like in reality.

Going by your classification of shines, body movement, and patterns, all of the dancers you named are probably better than 95%+ of the international salsa scene at all those aspects. However, they each have one aspect (actually, for Frankie it is not just body movement it is also footwork/shines that he excels at -- see video below) at which they are in the top 0.01% -- and since it is the nature of our perception to notice those aspects which make their dancing uniquely extraordinary, it is those top 0.01% aspects that will dominate our perception of each dancer, superseding their other qualities.

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Ah! So this is what Dissonant Harmony was speaking of when he mentioned the "Wrong Direction" fallacy... it's clear now.
 
SmallSteps3000 said:
Ah! So this is what Dissonant Harmony was speaking of when he mentioned the "Wrong Direction" fallacy... it's clear now.
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Not exactly.
One may think: "How bizzare! It's always morning when the sun rises", but completely disregard the idea that it is morning because the sun rises.

Just like it is morning because the sun rises,
you know FM because he's good at body movement.
That's why he made it to your list.
He doesn't necessarily have to excell at everything else - he got to your list because of that area he super-excells at to begin with.

---

In addition, just like Sabrosura said - those dancers are probably really good in very aspects. Just because we know Terry for his very musical patterns doesn't mean he lacks in other areas.
 
Each dancer has his own personal preference even in the kind of slasa music he enjoys listening to and expresses music in his own unique way, so offcource you can see that they are better at one thing than something else!
 
Yiannis said:
Each dancer has his own personal preference even in the kind of slasa music he enjoys listening to and expresses music in his own unique way, so offcource you can see that they are better at one thing than something else!
Click to expand...

Also I'd like to note that even Frankie's patterns that might appear simple compared to Terry's for example, in reality, they are not. They are full of subtlety that make them much more complex than they seem on the surface. But you have to be dancing with him or be taught the pattern to really understand that. Terry doesn't have nearly the same kind of subtlety and unique surprise in his dancing.
 
Well let's put this to the test. Think of another athlete in another sport. Do you normally associate them with just ONE thing? Normally this is the case... it's their calling card. Although Babe Ruth was a great hitter and also a very good pitcher... you normally think of Babe Ruth as simply 'The Sultan of Swat,' the greatest hitter who ever lived. Michael Jordan won Defensive Player of the Year one year, which means he was the best defender that year in the NBA. But most remember him for his high-flying offensive skills. Kobe, same thing.

Obviously, MJ and Babe Ruth didn't suck at everything else in their sports. Neither do Frankie, Terry, Franklin, etc. They're all very very good at a lot of things. They just have a particular calling card. I'd venture that's the case for the majority of athletes.

Now, there are exceptions. There are guys like Lebron James who happen to be Swiss Army Knife's. Simone Biles is a recent example, Michael Phelps also. They're pretty much good at everything and it's hard to single out just one thing. So, yea, handing out a 'best all around salsa dancer' would actually be really really difficult. And of course subjective as all hell.

I also doubt you'll ever see an 'all-in-one' guy like you've said. You can plainly see that, just on Terry and Frankie alone, their philosophies are extremely different. Terry and Maykel are extremely high energy, and show that. Terry in particular loves fast songs. And if he has a slow song, he just fits 3 turns where most people do 1. And yes, that's a backhanded compliment. Guys like Frankie and Mitchell Provence, who learned from Frankie, are all about relaxing with the music... breathing... natural movement and sharing a comfortable experience. Mitchell straight up says he doesn't like fast songs.

Anyway, I learned this from none other than @kbitten ... some guys make love, other guys bang. Apologies for the crassness, jejejeje.

Actually, I DO submit one guy who can emulate the energy of a song and look equally proficient doing fast or slow... and this may be unpopular...

Oliver*

*By no means is Oliver my favorite, but I do recognize the guy is damn good, all around.
 
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