Yep, his follower is still being led on the expected beat. It's pretty easy to follow that, considering many followers are pretty used to dancing with guys who are genuinely off time and chaotic this is a doddle!
Going 'off timing' or just dancing musically?
- Thread starter eclo
- Start date
Followers, how does it feel when a good lead dissociates their stepping from the leading this way? As a lead, some of my favourite partners are those where I feel exactly where their weight is (via some combination of a good connection and good stepping on their side). For a lead that leads well while not stepping, do you feel the difference? Or can they be so good at faking their weight transfer that it feels like they're stepping as usual?
The good ones as long as those anchor moments are there the in-between doesn't matter as much. I.e if I'm on 2 and I feel the 2 and 7 or 8, the in-between doesn't matter.
The less good ones eh if you're experienced enough you can make enough educated guesses it kinda works.
Sometimes it seems to work more as dancing solo together Vs truly connected partner dancing.
But only if there is a weight transfer or step to feel 2 or 6. If there is no stepping at all there is nothing to anchor except the music beat. But that is then like a third scenario you have described.
As leaders to we can adjust or switch for whichever rhythm a follower is dancing and it honestly doesn't feel disconnected to me. This happens more with untrained followers of latinas who are very familiar with music and have a good sense of rhythm.
In tango you can choose and switch which rhythm you are dancing to within the same song. You can also switch to melody or rhythm. The strict adherence to on2 timing in salsa completely misses this part. Strict time is better for choreography or show. In strict time you can miss out on accents that happen off time. When dancing with someone who has very good sense of rhythm but doesn't keep ro strict timing, imho there should not be a feeling of disconnect.
My problem with the posted video is not philosophical. It is an execution. The execution is eyesore because it is movement only. Not dancing. Dancing prederably should be whole body, not half body. At the end of the day no matter which music you are dancing to, if you are not expressing music in your dancing, that is more movement and less of a dance.
I agree. Many salsa dancers, even high level pros such as Samuel, lack upper body movement and afro cuban body movement and really don't dance with their whole body.
Imho it's most noticeable in male crossbody dancers who came to salsa without previous dance training.
There was a video of Franklin Diaz (very fluid) and some backing dancers doing the same choreo which illustrated it so well, albeit inadvertently. I'll see if I can find it.
I guess a lot is down to aesthetic choice, but I'm not a fan. To me it's one of the small signs that elevates someone to the absolute top of the top.
Jaime_Pipoca
Changui
Looks terrible, and I'm not buying what he's selling about changing timing accents. My belief, is he's just using what he says as an excuse for poor timing while trying to make a name for himself at the grief of the music. His timing bounces around from mainly marking the 2, the and of 2, and on an occasion the 1.
Also, I don't necessarily call this dancing, but instead I'd consider it just performative art. I think it looks messy here, but give him a song he's never heard before, something Cuban or Colombian, and this would look awful if interpreted the same way. He definitely doesn't use the force.
Also, I don't necessarily call this dancing, but instead I'd consider it just performative art. I think it looks messy here, but give him a song he's never heard before, something Cuban or Colombian, and this would look awful if interpreted the same way. He definitely doesn't use the force.
After watching the video, what strikes me is that this couple is interpreting the melodic line. That's their artistic choice. I've been dancing for so long I've also noticed it's a trend (I'm in northern Europe), but I don't particularly enjoy dancing like that. I like to connect to the rhythmic foundation of the music, so emphasizing the melody as a style kind of feels like a different dance.
It's really not about the stepping, but this way of leading looks like it's focused on the melody, so it can disrupt the groove that a follow might feel.
1. It is fine to dance to the melody within structure of the dance.
2. The foundation of salsa dancing is fundamentally tied and moored to rhythm. When you step outside it, it is a different dance. E.g. dancing zouk or WCS to melodic line of salsa, doesn’t make it salsa dancing.
I think you're touching on something. Bachata and the rise of sensual has been discussing this as it's more obvious but I think salsa is facing similar and no one wants to admit it.
When you turn off the music and a video looks like a miscellaneous non-latin contemporary freestyle partner dance, when it has no Cuban motion, no afro Latin body movement, no connection to the rythyms, is it really salsa or mambo?
Exactly! That’s the litmus test.
Dancer’s creative freedom doesn’t mean you alter the nature of that dance itself. Similar debate also happens in Tango and other dances. When musicians change characteristics of a genre of music, usually a new genre is born. With dancing a parallel is hard. Not easy to create new version of dance. Though sensual did succeed.