Going 'off timing' or just dancing musically?

[eclo]

So this video of Samuel Fun Flow is going viral in my feed.

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He's claiming he's dancing 'off timing' but to my eyes he does the whole dance on2 timing but he just uses pauses and syncopation to emphasise the music.

I can't see anywhere where he breaks on2 timing. Yes he doesn't step out every single step rigidly 123 577 but that doesn't mean he's 'off timing'.

Is he just talking crap for clickbait (my suspicion) or is the dance world so uneducated on music they think unless you keep every single step rigidly 123 567 it's 'off timing' (also likely).

So come on SF, do your thing.

 

[MamboJazz]

He's exaggerating somewhat for calling attention, indeed he means not doing every step and is promoting this a lot. If you look on your average salsa dancefloor people are caught in continuous stepping and think they are doing well because no teacher ever advised them to do different. Indeed it's hard to leave the continuous stepping because salsa music is a continuous fast flow and leader's brains are busy enough to stay in rhythm while leading the follower. But this continuous stepping makes look the dance non-musical for many, so salsa lost attraction as other dances look more musical from outside. Samuel Funflow tries to regain attraction for salsa by opening it for more emphasis on musicality.

EDIT: This video was recorded at Hamburg Big3 festival (SBK), and bachata had the bigger room as it often is the case nowadays - giving the fact that bachata has bypassed salsa in popularity Samuel reacts by trying to modernize the dance thus making it more attractive again.

 

[Chris_Yannick]

Wait, so you want us to rip on Samuel as if that was our thing? Done!

This is clickbait for sure, as is most of social media content these days is, but this is also Samuel's philosophy.

He doesn't step a lot here (and yes he should be scolded for this). He is promoting his brand of musicality, which relies a lot on stepping in and out of classical '123 567' timing, but this is misleading becuse he is still keeping time and being on rhythm.

Since I took his musicality killers course, I can confirm that he does practice what he preaches, but it's more along the lines of "do what you want as long as it's still on time". He's just trying to make it sound absurd, but it isn't really.

 

[Chris_Yannick]

If you look on your average salsa dancefloor people are caught in continuous stepping

I can't see this anywhere lol. But maybe we're talking about a different kind of continuous stepping.

My idea of continuous stepping is something that looks and feels amazing while still being musical.

If you stop stepping because of musicality, okay, I can somewhat agree with that.

But not doing continuous stepping during patterns? That's just bad teaching and shouldn't be habitualized.

 

[MamboJazz]

I can't see this anywhere lol. But maybe we're talking about a different kind of continuous stepping.

My idea of continuous stepping is something that looks and feels amazing while still being musical.

If you stop stepping because of musicality, okay, I can somewhat agree with that.

But not doing continuous stepping during patterns? That's just bad teaching and shouldn't be habitualized.

I mean people continously stepping 123 567 without any change even when the music stops, except leader not stepping at all while leading a multiple spin which looks awful.

Samuel promotes stepping according to the music: if music emphasizes 12 56 8, then he steps 12 56 8. This is hard to do and needs exercise. But first you must be willing to do.

 

[1derpalm]

After taking several weeks of classnin cuba, I can say it isn't new. Cubans have been doing ghit for ever.
In Son (since the 40s), the leader will take 2 steps instead of 3 so as to be on the ladies timing and then take 5 continously steps to get back on leader timing. Or pausing to pose while leading the lady back amd 4th.
And in timba you can go "off time" often. Doing dqln like "1234 67. Or guapea with &1 3 567. Or tapping g on 3 and 7.
Or stepping ypur 1 on the 8 (this fits timba perdecrly), and usually illicit a smile from the follow. Or doing hecho (old name for the vaciliala with hand hold) with styling of feta (not stepping after 123, but toe heel foot cleaning) for a timing of 12345 78.

Tl;Dr whats new to him is 90 years old in cuba.

 

[Chris_Yannick]

Yeah I get that people take less steps to complete a bar but in the video with Samuel he does take massive liberties with the stepping.

 

[MAMBO_CEC]

So this video of Samuel Fun Flow is going viral in my feed.

View this content on Instagram

View this content on Instagram

He's claiming he's dancing 'off timing' but to my eyes he does the whole dance on2 timing but he just uses pauses and syncopation to emphasise the music.

I can't see anywhere where he breaks on2 timing. Yes he doesn't step out every single step rigidly 123 577 but that doesn't mean he's 'off timing'.

Is he just talking crap for clickbait (my suspicion) or is the dance world so uneducated on music they think unless you keep every single step rigidly 123 567 it's 'off timing' (also likely).

So come on SF, do your thing.

My thoughts exactly! I am going with clickbait. I like the guy, he has a local residency, it’s nice to think ‘outside of the box’ (supposedly!). He’s doing what we all should be doing namely dancing to the music.

 

[Smejmoon]

From what I see he keeps on2 timing in leading, but not in his footwork, unless it makes sense. That is rather common, I do the same.

 

[Smejmoon]

Level 0 - you take classes or perform salsa.
Level 1 - you go to parties, shake your ass to salsa and feel good.
Level 2 - you take classes and learn steppings and now you have patterns how you step that match the music.
Level 3 - you find put there are other steppings out there that match music differently, with their own ruleset. You learn those.
Level 4 you listen to the music and decide you'll dance your own steppings solo.
Level 5 - you shake your ass to salsa music and it feels good to your partner.
Level 6 - you can lead different steppings, while dancing your own. (on the video)
Level 7 - you can do that with several people at the same time, lead and follow (Sam is there).
Level 8 - you can make up steppings and dance them in sync with your partner.
Level - 9 you shake your ass at the salsa music and everyone feels good.

I might have missed some levels, please correct me, but finally the secret is out.

 

[Offbeat]

So this video of Samuel Fun Flow is going viral in my feed.

View this content on Instagram

View this content on Instagram

He's claiming he's dancing 'off timing' but to my eyes he does the whole dance on2 timing but he just uses pauses and syncopation to emphasise the music.

I can't see anywhere where he breaks on2 timing. Yes he doesn't step out every single step rigidly 123 577 but that doesn't mean he's 'off timing'.

Is he just talking crap for clickbait (my suspicion) or is the dance world so uneducated on music they think unless you keep every single step rigidly 123 567 it's 'off timing' (also likely).

So come on SF, do your thing.

All his dancing is frenetic arms. That may be dancing but not salsa dancing in my books. He is just doing an ultra fast version of new agey dancing to salsa music

 

[Offbeat]

He's exaggerating somewhat for calling attention, indeed he means not doing every step and is promoting this a lot.

Sounds very gimmicky to me. Not doing every step doesn’t mean no weight transfer. It is not about stepping to the count. When watching I can’t tell where he is in the music. I can’t. This certainly is click-bait or rage-bait. Manufacturing rage is a good or

If you look on your average salsa dancefloor people are caught in continuous stepping and think they are doing well because no teacher ever advised them to do different. Indeed it's hard to leave the continuous stepping because salsa music is a continuous fast flow and leader's brains are busy enough to stay in rhythm while leading the follower.

Why then do we have so much traffic cop syndrome on dance floor?

But this continuous stepping makes look the dance non-musical for many, so salsa lost attraction as other dances look more musical from outside. Samuel Funflow tries to regain attraction for salsa by opening it for more emphasis on musicality.

If this is how, then that’s bs!

EDIT: This video was recorded at Hamburg Big3 festival (SBK), and bachata had the bigger room as it often is the case nowadays - giving the fact that bachata has bypassed salsa in popularity Samuel reacts by trying to modernize the dance thus making it more attractive again.

Who said that frenetic movement is modernizing. It is like going back to 2000s and a bad copy of it!

 

[Offbeat]

it's more along the lines of "do what you want as long as it's still on time". He's just trying to make it sound absurd, but it isn't really.

And what exactly is “still on time” if you aren’t really stepping at all

 

[Offbeat]

My thoughts exactly! I am going with clickbait. I like the guy, he has a local residency, it’s nice to think ‘outside of the box’ (supposedly!). He’s doing what we all should be doing namely dancing to the music.

Actually if you are talking about dancing to the music while being off time or off beat, then disgraced Alex de Silva was miles ahead of this guy LA wasn’t dancing on time till 1999 or 2000, when they discovered what on time means from NYC dancers.

 

[Offbeat]

From what I see he keeps on2 timing in leading, but not in his footwork, unless it makes sense. That is rather common, I do the same.

You mean he starts the patterns in on2 timing.

 

[Governor Moonbeam]

All his dancing is frenetic arms. That may be dancing but not salsa dancing in my books. He is just doing an ultra fast version of new agey dancing to salsa music

Thank you. I can't stand this dude. The cheesy name, the new agey clothes and hat, the forced, overcooked, awkward vibe.

 

[Smejmoon]

You mean he starts the patterns in on2 timing.

I mean reasonably good on2 follow should not get confused by his signals and will know what to do; if she's watching his feet or something, she'll get confused.

 

[Offbeat]

I mean reasonably good on2 follow should not get confused by his signals and will know what to do; if she's watching his feet or something, she'll get confused.

He isn't using feet anyways and followers don't look at the feet. My assumption is that if a follower is moving or weight transferring based on2 timing, his start of turns (on first count( will not confuse her. If I was following with a lead where I don't know where his weight/feet is, it won't bother me where he starts his pattern. Though at the pace he is going there would be hardly anytime to think about it

 

[Chris_Yannick]

And what exactly is “still on time” if you aren’t really stepping at all

He goes in and out of the 123 567 stepping and uses musical accents to stop himself from moving but will return to the original on2 timing at key moments in the music so as not to confuse his partner. Although these demo videos demonstrate the full utilisation of his methods so of course his followers understand what's going on since they're high level.

It's no different than what guys like Walid are doing, just doing it faster and more frenetic.

 

[1derpalm]

Tbh I wasn't offended by it. Well other than his blurb, it looked like a guy dancing to the music. Though the music was low so I couldn't tell how he was accenting.