Festival and Travel Planner 2026

[salsera13579]

But MamboCha referred to "turn on that look":

Okay, I understand. I missed the part about “that look.” Thanks for stepping in!

Yes, I understand what “that look” means and how it could be interpreted and affect other people’s moods.

I always try to put on a smile, but I’m going to reflect on myself and see if I ever had that look toward someone.

 

[Smejmoon]

In my case, I was sitting there because my feet hurt so much and I was completely exhausted. But I refused to leave because I love the music, and my mind still wanted to feel the party vibes while being surrounded by people I know.

This is why I sit on the stage as well. I think when sitting one can look more or less available thus signaling wish to dance.

 

[Chris_Yannick]

Another reason why someone might unfairly judge someone sitting on the stage is because it is a high pressure area. If you dance there, you are right next to the stars and cameras. Most people don't want to be that visible. A rejection by the stage is also going to be more visible.

 

[MamboCha]

Okay, I understand. I missed the part about “that look.” Thanks for stepping in!

Yes, I understand what “that look” means and how it could be interpreted and affect other people’s moods.

I always try to put on a smile, but I’m going to reflect on myself and see if I ever had that look toward someone.

Thanks for trying to make the community a better place!

 

[MamboCha]

Another reason why someone might unfairly judge someone sitting on the stage is because it is a high pressure area. If you dance there, you are right next to the stars and cameras. Most people don't want to be that visible. A rejection by the stage is also going to be more visible.

Oh no, my first YouTube moment, a big fat no from a famous YouTube star, for a most infamous moment... Where's that 100-tear emoji?!

While on this subject of no's, few more for you all to dissect.

The mystery no's...

Great in sync and playful dance with this gal, next day actually she asked. Then afternoon social, cha cha came on, she sitting there, but then no. My only surprise no for the whole event. So walked down, asked another, and had a mediocre cha cha. But caught her in the corner of my eyes dancing, great moves but with a lead clearly not in cha cha. Afternoon ended, she talked by, saw me, came over and said sorry I said no earlier because I'm not good at cha cha. Well, make that what you will...

No, but yes with very next guy, and we ended up dancing next to each other, and in fact exchanged few smiles. Next day, asked again, no again, and danced almost next to each other again. Near end of night saw her a third time, and I made a self stabbing and twisting motion to heart, with two fingers from the other hand, and she covered her face with a crying smile like oh no I'm sorry. No word, just passing glance, and an understanding...

Then the good no's...

A stunning slim and tall blonde, smiled and no thank you. Few songs later, tap on shoulder and her extending hand. Smiley all throughout, though at best mid-level, followed really well and able to inject her share of the playfully moments. Ended with her "Sorry said no earlier, but saw you danced on2. Then last song saw you on1..." Next day grabbed me for encore.

2 sideline watchers, "I'm beginner and I saw you dance so..." I replied, "Don't worry, we wouldn't grade you, just have fun." Both ended up with smiley thanks. One even pulled me to side and "hay, dance with my friend".

 

[Smejmoon]

The mystery no's...
Then the good no's...

Trying to make sense of it all is a lot of effort and for many people these reasons will change over time or they'll forget, etc. Some are very tense about who asked whom and how much. Carry grudges for a long time.

Myself, I just need 20-30 dancers where there is mutual interest to dance, shared musical preferences, and I'm set for entire event. Which means large events are actually worse than those sub 250 ones, since it's harder to find these people in the crowd. Experience is diluted and inconsistent. For everyone this Venn diagram is different, though I know some friends' taste and they know mine, so there are recommendations. Same if you dance well with one girlfriend - she'll recommend you to others.
So dance well, but not too good, then they get scared, etc. etc. complicated

And learning to accept no and move on same as to say no and move on is another skill salsa dancer must develop. These might be unpleasant experiences, but result is probably better than suffering through the dance that one or both of the parties didn't truly want.

 

[MamboJazz]

Yes, I understand what “that look” means and how it could be interpreted and affect other people’s moods.

I always try to put on a smile, but I’m going to reflect on myself and see if I ever had that look toward someone.

Don't worry, nobody's perfect. I suspect also we males sometimes may look unfavorably when we are not in a good mood and some unwanted follower comes asking.

 

[Chris_Yannick]

Near end of night saw her a third time, and I made a self stabbing and twisting motion to heart, with two fingers from the other hand, and she covered her face with a crying smile like oh no I'm sorry

This sounds like the start of some wacky, slapstick forbidden love story.

Just need the trailer guy to narrate and this could be the sleeper hit of the year.

 

[Offbeat]

And "that look" happens more likely in the stage area.

There is a lot to unpack on various topics in this thread.

Above I believe is a stereotype. My experience hasn’t been that it is likely to happen near the DJ/Stage area where people sit or hang out. I have both hung out in that area, asked followers to dance, and also got rejections. I am a very average dancer and average guy. I don’t remember getting that look in the stage area across multiple festivals. If it had happened I would definitely remember it.

@salsera13579 is right. That area serves dual purpose of getting rest. It does it make hard to tell who is resting and who is not. Some followers when rejecting will indicate they are taking a break. Others will likely be more curt. But seeing you dance in that area definitely increases odds of someone on borderline of saying no, agreeing to.

As a new to the festival, @MamboCha probably didn’t know the followers or their proclivities. As you know the specific followers you can kind of tell when they are likely to say yes, which of them says yes more, which one rejects more, etc. kinda similar to how we know people at regular socials.

 

[Offbeat]

IMO, we don't need another performative event in Salsa. Salsa congresses have too many performances and competitions already. J&J would be a middle ground like performative social dancing, which we already have with cameras and social dancing. Adding competition on top of that sounds greedy and unnecessary.

If it were to replace competition and/or performances, then I'd be more of a proponent for it, but I don't see that happening. Thus I don't see J&J becoming a permanent fixture in Salsa scenes.

In WCS, the J&J at socials are not performative. People take it as a fun thing to participate in. Everyone irrespective or skill level participates and you could get matched with a total newbie.

At the festivals it is a bit more formal. There are categories. Though socials can have separate categories for novices.

Problem is if you introduce J&J in salsa, people will start taking it too seriously and try to outdo each other. While WCS J&J awards points which are valuable to move up the WCS skill ladder (you need points to qualify for participating at the next level. There is central registry of everyone’s points). Despite that WCS J&J is moored in social dancing traditions.

If people were to take it purely as fun and not competition (and judges instructed to cut points for anything that resembles stage performance type moves), it could work in salsa. As another social dance. In WCS the J&J is very democratic. If that can be bought over to salsa it could work. Personally I don’t prefer it, because I see it becoming toxic given how festival salsa works.

 

[Offbeat]

The mystery no's...

Great in sync and playful dance with this gal, next day actually she asked. Then afternoon social, cha cha came on, she sitting there, but then no. My only surprise no for the whole event. So walked down, asked another, and had a mediocre cha cha. But caught her in the corner of my eyes dancing, great moves but with a lead clearly not in cha cha. Afternoon ended, she talked by, saw me, came over and said sorry I said no earlier because I'm not good at cha cha. Well, make that what you will...

Okay. This is not uncommon. Both at socials but especially at the festivals. Many followers (non-advanced) lack confidence to dance cha cha. Sometimes they will start rejection by saying “I don’t dance cha ha” or “I am not good at it”. I usually say you can still give it a chance. Generally 70% of the followers agree to dance after a bit of pursuasion. 30% stick to saying no. Trick is to know when persuasion can make them agree. I don’t think there is any rule book. Play it by ear and watch the body language.

Of 70% some surprise me with being pretty decent add ma few might make me regret. However usually I ask unknowns only after those that I would really like to dance with are not available or I can’t spot them.

No, but yes with very next guy, and we ended up dancing next to each other, and in fact exchanged few smiles. Next day, asked again, no again, and danced almost next to each other again. Near end of night saw her a third time, and I made a self stabbing and twisting motion to heart, with two fingers from the other hand, and she covered her face with a crying smile like oh no I'm sorry. No word, just passing glance, and an understanding...

Sometimes followers also don’t want to dance because they think you are good. Other times they have their comfort zone leaders - someone they know well. The guy might not be that good, but it is like a safety zone for the followers. I seen this with followers from Eastern Europe and Russia.

Perception that you are really good or only dance certain way (e.g. on2 only or do lot of shines) can intimidate non-advanced followers.

Many times those mystery nos are more about their lack of confidence than anything about you or your dancing.

Not uncommon to get yes three times and then a no, or random mix of yes and no from the same follower during the three/four days at a festival. It is not a norm. But it does happen.

 

[MamboCha]

This sounds like the start of some wacky, slapstick forbidden love story.

Just need the trailer guy to narrate and this could be the sleeper hit of the year.

Sure, misery loves company, let's blow up for the world to see. Again, where's my 100-tear emoji .............................................

 

[MamboCha]

Thanks everyone! You've turned lowlight into funny read, and I just couldn't stop laughing. Surely no one wants to compete with me for the most complete no's in a single event award, right?

Checked, too good
Checked, not good enough
Checked, not on2 but good on1
Checked, find you later
Checked, have to break/change
Checked, reputation to protect
Checked, just don't wanna dance with you

 

[Smejmoon]

No disparaging comments about your sunglasses or chain?

 

[WellHelloThere]

Thanks everyone! You've turned lowlight into funny read, and I just couldn't stop laughing. Surely no one wants to compete with me for the most complete no's in a single event award, right?

Checked, too good
Checked, not good enough
Checked, not on2 but good on1
Checked, find you later
Checked, have to break/change
Checked, reputation to protect
Checked, just don't wanna dance with you

Sounds like you need to start dancing with a bandana, sunglasses and one trouser leg rolled cup. No’s will be a thing of the past!

 

[Chris_Yannick]

Problem is if you introduce J&J in salsa, people will start taking it too seriously and try to outdo each other.

Not only that, but where do you fit J&J in a Salsa event schedule?

If you have a 2-3 hour daytime social, that should be time reserved for social dancing. 1+ hour J&J that doesn't attract non competitors is going to impede more times than not.

During the evening, you have performances then social dancing. Where would you slot in J&J?

Salsa J&J is at best, a niche activity that needs to be announced ahead of time and have an event built around it.

Salsa people are maybe the most difficult group to convince to adopt to new things.

I could see Bachata J&J's occurring with regularity due to Bachata's high adoption rate.

 

[eclo]

Just seen London Salsa Marathon is getting 'upgraded' this year, adding in shows and workshops. Apparently it won't alter the social dance hours. Last year was very poorly attended so maybe they feel a need to switch it up. I feel the UK scene is becoming over saturated with festivals which are pretty samey, same teachers same djs rinse and repeat.

 

[Mambosero]

London has many good regular socials. There really isn’t a need for a marathon. London is also expensive compared to other cities so it’s hard to incentivize people to come in for it. Also, Hamburg weekender is the same weekend.

 

[MamboJazz]

Not only that, but where do you fit J&J in a Salsa event schedule?

If you have a 2-3 hour daytime social, that should be time reserved for social dancing. 1+ hour J&J that doesn't attract non competitors is going to impede more times than not.

During the evening, you have performances then social dancing. Where would you slot in J&J?

Salsa J&J is at best, a niche activity that needs to be announced ahead of time and have an event built around it.

Yes, time slot would become a problem, as my beloved afternoon socials would most likely suffer from it. First it's just a one hour demo like in Hamburg, but in full extent like in WCS it takes the whole day (or even two) with it's dozen divisions and endless participants. So while a one-hour J&J in the beginning can be fun it may easily develop into an unpleasant direction.

Bachata seems to go this way, I saw first festival announcements this year of J&J in two divisions (novice & intermediate). In a few years they may equally end up with five divisions like WCS and have hundreds of participants, that needs endless hours to do all those preliminaries and semifinals. Needless to mention WCS festivals with J&J don't have afternoon socials, there is just no time for it left.

Problem is if you introduce J&J in salsa, people will start taking it too seriously and try to outdo each other.

That's the other dark side. On reddit several westies confess they suffer from repeatedly not getting into finals. What if you never get better despite years of trying? Not everybody can handle to know one is mediocre. Also many westies say the best dance day on their festivals is sunday evening when people are finally relaxed again after competitions.

I've seen it happen in other sports, youngsters embrace competitions as it is their possibility to stand out and maybe make a living out of it. Not having so much youngsters may help salsa to not embrace it, and maybe one day have the USP of still being a partner dance focused on social dance.

 

[Offbeat]

Needless to mention WCS festivals with J&J don't have afternoon socials, there is just no time for it left.

They open up floor for social dancing between the J&J during afternoons and other times. It is not same as afternoon social and has far less time.

That's the other dark side. On reddit several westies confess they suffer from repeatedly not getting into finals.

I don’t follow Reddit. But is salsa Reddit reports are to be believed, more participants are odd balls and complainers.

What if you never get better despite years of trying?

Getting better has nothing to do with not getting into finals. In all dances there is a group of dancers that never improve despite dancing for a decade. At best their dancing skills remain at low intermediate level. Usually bad posture, weak basics, lack of fluidity in movements, etc.

Not everybody can handle to know one is mediocre.

That’s why I say you can be mediocre and still have fun participating in J&Just started in WCS. It is very much in the DNA of their dance culture. Except for the festival J&J participants, other Westies don’t bother about moving up the official “ranking”.

Bringing it into Salsa, which has its own dance culture would be like introducing a virus.

I have never participated in any type of WCS J&Js. I know many others who don’t. It doesn’t matter for social dancing.

While festival J&Js have an element of competition to it, it is hard to explain to salsa people that for Westies it is more fun than competition. People participate because everything around them is. It is what westies do at the festivals.

Those who participate in J&Js are also those that social dance the most at the festivals. The WCS festivals have social dancing starting at midnight till 7am in the morning for decades. That type of social dancing in salsa festivals only started with EU festivals gaining currency. In salsa people who take workshops generally dance less at the socials. In WCS almost everyone takes workshops and everyone dances socially. Different dance, different ethos.

Also many westies say the best dance day on their festivals is sunday evening when people are finally relaxed again after competitions.

Salsa people say the same.

Most WCS festivals are local. Which means overwhelming attendees are drawn from the surrounding local areas. We could say it is similar for salsa festivals too, but the salsa festivals advertise themselves thousands of miles away.

I've seen it happen in other sports, youngsters embrace competitions as it is their possibility to stand out and maybe make a living out of it.

I don’t know about Europe. The WCS is still very new there and picking up. I have never been able to dance WCS in Europe locally when I was regularly traveling for salsa festivals. Most places either didn’t have WCS socials or if they did it was once a month. Which means the festival weekend didn’t line up. On the other hand almost everywhere I could go to local milongas, leave it around midnight to make it to the festival social dancing.

Where I am, the WCS has deep roots and one of the most active WCS scenes. A lot of youngsters dance it (far higher percentage compared to salsa) and a lot of senior (60+) also dance it. I have not seen the youngsters trying to become instructors. Even most popular and sought after WCS instructors have a day job. Only a few make a living out of it. To make a living you need critical mass of dancers. Every Westie takes privates to improve. It is expected you will take private lessons. But WCS is very small compared with salsa. I doubt more than a few instructors can afford to make a living giving privates. There is no equivalent of salsa trans either.

Not having so much youngsters may help salsa to not embrace it, and maybe one day have the USP of still being a partner dance focused on social dance.

I will say WCS is a lot more focused on social dancing than salsa ever has been. It is far more democratic. Everyone dances with everyone. Advanced dancers ask beginners. There is no celebrity culture in WCS. It is very rare in California (leader heavy) for a woman to ask a man. In WCS half of the time I get asked. There is less or almost no cliquish behavior at WCS socials. In my experience when it comes to the dancing part, WCS has none of the negatives of salsa or tango. My problem with Westies is their lack of taste in music and willingness to dance to any crappy music