Dunham In Salsa

opm1s6

opm1s6

Son
from another thread....


desconocida said:
I think this is worth its own thread, Opm, isn't it? :-)
I've been trying to do some research on this topic recently (more or less after that whole BaSo discussion), which is truly hard however, if you are as far from that (physically) as I am.
You seem to have some experience in this field and it would be awesome to hear some first-hand reviews and opinions.
So far I didn't have a chance to figure out what really makes that method so different (I'm aware of the incorporation of Afro-Carribean movement, but would like to learn more about the actual method - what it contains and what Dunham practices look like.) I'd highly appreciate if you could shed some light on this!!
Click to expand...



To me, dunham's popularity comes from the salseros, who saw the benefits of ballet training, the flexibility, the balance and strength, but saw the drawback, in that ballet is all about distancing yourself from the floor, rising away from it. In dunham (as far as I understand it) it brought ballet back down to earth and infused it with some african motions. I don't know how authentic those movements are or how similar they are to afro-cuban rumba (I would guess they aren't close), but the training is as rigorous if not more. This is my uninformed perspective, and I'd love to have someone to shed some light, but even if there was value to it, it still doesn't justify why you couldn't go through other more specified routes to gain the same abilities, or focus on the exercises that truly matter to salseros, instead of taking 7+ years of dunham.

What am i missing and is this really why people do dunham?...
 
opm1s6 said:
What am i missing and is this really why people do dunham?...
Click to expand...

This topic has been brought up in several threads now. You're in NYC where it's happening. Probably would be fairly easy to talk to people like Gringa, Manny, Piel C, Daniel and others that you run into - as well as going to one of the classes that they go to, if you already haven't. I have friends that have been going for a few years and I thought about going at one time. Might also be interesting to take a body movement class with Franklin cause I heard he incorperates D.
 
Hm... Ok... From all those description so far I understand it might be very close to contemporary/modern training, since you still use classical ballet technique but "ground yourself" more, right?
Btw, as for comparison to Afro-Carribean rumba: I've taken some (well, rather "a few", unfortunately) Afro-Pop classes which also based on traditional African dance just as rumba does - and the movements were extremely different from what salseros might be familiar with from Cuban teachers or Frankie's dvd. I think it would be very hard, if not impossible for us to judge what is "authentic" due to that extreme variety that African dance offers. It might be completely out of our comfort zone but extremely authentic at the same time. But I'm sure y'all know that...

La Gringa, since you also have some experience, could you let us know what exactly a class looks like? This is something impossible to understand from mere internet descriptions :-)
And especially would I like to hear more about turning as opposed to spinning - it seemed from your other post like that's also a part of Dunham technique and I'd love to know how that's incorporated into training.
 
AguaDulce said:
This topic has been brought up in several threads now.
Click to expand...

It's come up on some other threads, but it seems to mainly be in connection with other (sensitive) topics, like whether or not Franklin Diaz is really the best salsa dancer, or on that whole BaSo flamewar of a post. I, for one, would love to watch a discussion about Dunham unfold on SF, since this is where I get most of my opinions on what is actually useful in salsa training!
 
I dropped in on a few afro-haitian classes taught with Dunham technique and I can definitely see how it could benefit salsa dancers. There is a concentration on using your core that we typically hear less about in salsa; but that is so important for developing fluid and connected body movements. The grounded, feet digging into the floor and body undulations that are part of the afro-haitian would be very useful for developing the muscle control that is needed for afro-cuban; although the exact movements are not identical they share roots that can easily be incorporated into afro-cuban/salsa. I wish I had more time to take the classes!
 
Hi,

I did a google on Dunham and salsa and ended up here and now I am a member here. I think I can add some value to this thread. A little bit background about myself. I started dancing salsa on2 in 2006 and have been dancing in the salsa social scene in New York since then. I started taking Dunham classes in the summer of 2008 and have been taking classes twice a week. So based on my personal experience, I can claim that it definitely helps your dancing.

Format of the class: There is a initial warm up which starts with releasing your back. (releasing the pelvic girdle moving it slowly), then working on plie's releve's, brush up and down. I think this is typical ballet format. Focus is more on pulling up when you are doing any kind of movement. And then there are these leg stretches that you do on the ballet bars. One will focus more on getting the technique right in lengthening and strengthening those muscles that are actually used for jumping, leaping or any kind of movement. Then a little bit of body isolation exercises. chest, shoulder, neck, hips. Again the emphasis is on keeping the body straight and not using the back but the core muscles. In the end the instructor will demonstrate a small choreography (any haitian dance form) that students will be doing. The class is very intense. They say one that doesnt kill you makes you strong. Well this is one of that kind.

The reason for learning dunham technique.
1. Strengthens your core... I think even yoga or pilates can do this job.
2. corrects your body posture while dancing --- even ballet training can do this.
3. Teaches you how to move your hip, chest, shoulder neck independent of each other.. -- have not heard of any training for this.. may be belly dancing?
4. Focuses on using the right muscles while doing any movement.

My experience so far is that I am learning a lot about my body and the muscles that I use for dancing. It takes a lot of time to find those muscles and start moving them. When some one mentioned 7 years, I am not surprised. It takes that long to get good at this. This is my second year and I feel that I just started getting it.

Here is a salsa website that has some videos of it. As you can see it is pretty advanced. And please don't try it at home. You might actually end up hurting yourself.
http://www.salsaconsabor.org/index.php?page=style

Where in NYC you can take classes?

1) I go to this gentleman called Ned Williams Jr. He is 80 years old now and has been teaching Dunham class for a while now.
This is his website
http://dunhamnyc.com/

2) One of Ned's old student I think his name is Craig, he runs a course called dunham for salsa dancers. Manny Blackette of Abakua dance company organizes that. From what I heard from my friends, it is very good. They have a facebook page. If any one can post the link here, that would be nice.

3)Alvin Ailey dance theater also has a dunham instructor called Joan Peters.
http://www.alvinailey.org/page.php?p=fac_d&v=154&sec=aileyextension

I think with this post, I might have answered a few of the questions which were posted here. If you want to clarify further.. do post the query here. I will try answering it or together we will figure it out.

-P
 
My 2 not so nice cents
If you've ever been to East/West Africa you'll see DUNHAM in action, people there don't emphasize on breathing techniques or how to ground yourself through your spine or whatever else might be used in subject training method.
Why do we have to glorify everything, give it a name,label it, and then pretend that it's the hottest new thing happening right now?

Pramodh, how did it help your salsa dancing?
 
lolita said:
Pramodh, how did it help your salsa dancing?
Click to expand...
Lolita,
1. I am more grounded while dancing.
2. My posture has improved. I pull up more.
3. There is extra ooomph in those body movements
4. More fluidity and control.
5. The icing on the cake is that, movement is effortless.
6. I use to get lower back and knee pains. I dont have that issue now.

So far this is what I have observed in myself.

The places that you mentioned in South Africa, they have grown up learning those movements. Dunham is more like a framework through which one who doesnt have that kind of a background can get there without hurting the body.

-P
 
pramodh_salsa said:
Lolita,
1. I am more grounded while dancing.
2. My posture has improved. I pull up more.
3. There is extra ooomph in those body movements
4. More fluidity and control.
5. The icing on the cake is that, movement is effortless.
6. I use to get lower back and knee pains. I dont have that issue now.
-P
Click to expand...

Can't you get all that by taking yoga?
 
wow, well that was very, very, very interesting. Thank you so much for the information.

Alright so this is my personal take:

I think whether it is dunham, ballet, yoga or in fact I'd add martial arts, acrobatics, b-boying and capoeira, the point is that as dancers, a portion of us are looking for a way to gain more dexterity, balance, strength and on top of that body movement. It could be argued that an afro-cuban or a body isolations class might give you the most body movement, but lacks the strengthening and balance. Ballet and yoga, might give you the greatest stretching ability, but lacks in body movement. And the martial arts and b-boying might give you balance and strengthening, but ultimately I guess some salsa dancers see dunham as the dance that gives you the most out of all of these worlds. I'd argue it doesn't and it is without a doubt not the perfect solution, but it is an interesting choice. If anything, I at least have a new perspective on it.

I think I'd rather just do a yoga class and add a constant body isolations class. At one point it might be better to just separate the activities. I also have no interest in dunham as an african dance, but simply some of the movements (not all).
 
Dunham is not a dance... it is just a workout technique which conditions and strengthens your muscles to do the dance movements effectively and make it look effortless at the same time preventing you from injuries.

If any other forms of discipline can get the same results well and good.

You dont need Dunham to become a salsa dancer, but if you want to be a good dancer in general (not just salsa) it is an option.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top