Do you have a set of patterns you use with unknown partners?

[PielCanela]

OK so I have learn a few patterns, some of them are turning out to be practicaly imposible to do unless the other person knows them( or maybe I just need to learn to lead better) .

Do you have a set of patterns that you do with people who you have never danced before ? (people who may ask to dance in the club itself) ?


After seeing some social dancing of frankie martinez and others, It seems that they do not use that much fancy patterns rather they have a few enhance CBLS, Spins, and footwork ( and they look amazing).

Are they doing this because that is their style of dancing or because they are dancing with random people who may not know their other complicated partterns ( when I talk about complicated patterns, I am thinking about Alex da Silva performace stuff, maybe even he does not do them in a regular social dancing )

 

[peachexploration]

Re: Do you have a set of patterns you use with unknown partn

......Are they doing this because that is their style of dancing or because they are dancing with random people who may not know their other complicated partterns ( when I talk about complicated patterns, I am thinking about Alex da Silva performace stuff, maybe even he does not do them in a regular social dancing )

In watching the "seasoned" dancers (leads), in general, I would say that they adjust to the skill level of whomever they are dancing with as oppose to new moves native to the area you live or studio you attend. In theory or unless it's something like Casino Rueda where calls are sometimes a combination of moves native to a group or city, I'm thinking that the technicalities of any move should be the same if both dancers are at the same skill level or dance the same style? Meaning if the technical lead signals are clear, then the follow should follow through with successful execution regardless of the complication of the pattern? If not, otherwise, no one would be able to follow Super Mario, right? I'm just thinking out loud, not sure if it's correct. Anyone else want to chime in on this one? What do you think?

 

[sac]

reply from newbe
first off let me thank the op for asking this question. this had been bugging me for a some time.....i have taken about 8 lessons so far and know about 2-3 patterns.i can pull them off with my classmates but when i try to do them with follows slightly better than me,something goes wrong.it just doesnt seem right...is it because of my lead?or is it because girls from my class know whats coming and pull it off very nicely? any pointers on how to improve my lead?
thanks guys
cheers,
Sac

 

[Ephidel]

It is most likely because of your lead. I still have problems doing my fancy patterns with some dancers I don't know, but usually it is because I either hesitate because I don't trust my ability to lead them, or because they did not let me lead them and "blocked" my move.

Usually if I do the move a second or third time with someone, they'll be able to follow it. That is, if they know the basic 5 or 6 moves that constitute the backbone of about every fancy salsa pattern that you will do such as enchufla, cross body lead, double spin, cross body lead the other way... etc.

I suggest you go to millionmovesman.com - it is Supermario's website. You will see videos of really nice patterns that he does with about 20 dancers, in different countries. I guess once a girl is very advanced, she gets used to letting the guy lead COMPLETELY and thus you can throw anything their way without problem!

 

[Danish Guy]

…..i have taken about 8 lessons so far and know about 2-3 patterns.i can pull them off with my classmates but when i try to do them with follows slightly better than me,something goes wrong.it just doesnt seem right...is it because of my lead?

Yes

or is it because girls from my class know whats coming and pull it off very nicely?

Yes

Then she don’t do what you lead, but what you think you are leading, so she do what she is thought to do during that pattern. It is always fun and to test the moves with someone who doesn’t know what’s coming. Then you know if your lead is clear.

any pointers on how to improve my lead?

Yes

When something goes wrong (and it does, its part of the dance), try to analyse the situation. How does the lady know what you want her to do? Why did she do something else? Was the timing right? Did she see the hand you wanted her to take? etc etc. And do smile, it’s not a awkward situation, unless you make it one.

If something goes wrong, it’s always the leaders fault. Either the lead wasn’t clear and on time, or we lead something that’s too advance or a different style than the lady we are dancing with.

Something’s goes wrong or she happens to do something different then you expected is not a problem. You will learn the cover up moves, so you just keep dancing not what happens.

Remember to have fun doing so!

 

[LongHairedLeader]

To answer the question in the post, from my point of view - I have a small selection of routines that I use in many of my dances with unknown partners, before I get into going any particularly 'fancy' moves. For anyone watching me when dancing at a new venue with new people, dance after dance, it probably looks like I'm doing a choreographed routine each time.

When I'm not dancing I spend my time watching followers, trying to get a vague estimation of their level of experience.

They vary from simple moves to more complicated ones, in that order, to allow me to gauge the level the follower can dance at. If they struggle with a move, I'll do something simple for a bit before going back and trying it again (with me paying particularly sharp attention to my leads at this point, in case it was my fault). If they still don't get it I'll generally confine my leading to this level, unless they seem to be enjoying the challenge and seem to want to have another go.

If this set of routines works ok, then I'll move into more complicated stuff.

I immensely dislike seeing a beginner I have just taught the basics, or I am aware only knows the basics, being taken onto the dance floor and have a leader who does not know them try to put them through multiple spins and complicated pretzel moves. For most this becomes a really scary experience and may put them off.

Leading someone a little above their level is manageable, but not if it is waaay above their level. Even the salsa gods themselves, no matter how good their lead, couldn't lead your average beginner through a triple turn..

I often find the experience you have mentioned PielCanela. I learn a new routine, and it only seems to work with followers who have also learned that routine. Unless it's a pure choreographed move, invariably, it's down to my leads being hesitant or too weak. If it works it's because the follower who knows the routine 'helps' the leader by walking through the steps she knows are coming. I say 'helps' as it generally isn't a help in the long-term - I need to learn to lead it myself which is something that isn't happening when the follower goes through the steps without my signal. I may think that I lead it ok, to find with a new partner, as you've described, it doesn't work because my leads weren't good enough and this follower doesn't know how to 'help' me with the routine...

 

[Danish Guy]

OK so I have learn a few patterns, some of them are turning out to be practicaly imposible to do unless the other person knows them( or maybe I just need to learn to lead better) .

You just have to learn to lead better. It will come.

Do you have a set of patterns that you do with people who you have never danced before ? (people who may ask to dance in the club itself) ?

Yes I have.
They are not always the same though. As a leader you have to make a connection with the lady you dance with. The basic say a lot. A few simple patterns say the rest. Then you can tune in to her style and how she likes her lead. It goes normally very well with the music’s way of a slow start. Then you can play, or make patterns/moves or whatever until you reach the limit of yours or hers capabilities.

I like the challenge with dancing with ladies I don’t know. She may be a pro, or she doesn’t know salsa at all. As the leader I have to find out. It’s up to me to make the dance work, and be a good time, not only for her, but for myself as well.

Some patterns are for performance only. The lady knows what to do, so it’s not lead able on the social floor with a stranger. Some patterns are dangerous on the social floor. Both types is utterly uninteresting for me, as I only dance to have a good time.

 

[Martialdog]

I tend to use the same relatively simple moves with partners I've never danced with before. If she breezes through them I tend to up the ante...if she smiles after a tricky move then she can handle it, if she looks lost, I'll go back to simple moves again.

The main aim is to make the woman look good. I also start spinning along with the girl which can make simple moves look more complex.

Add a few shoulder drops too and using throwing\catching her hands (dont know the pro term for this!), etc also adds to styling

 

[PielCanela]

If it works it's because the follower who knows the routine 'helps' the leader by walking through the steps she knows are coming. I say 'helps' as it generally isn't a help in the long-term -

I think you are so right, that will very much explain my situation, well I am encouraged to hear that I can do something about... I will sure place even more importance to my lead

 

[Terremoto]

Great topic. I have asked myself this many of times. I have been dancing for four years. I have gone to a lot of classes taught by a lot of different instructors- however, this past year I finally gave up on going to classes. The patterns I learn at this level really only work with ladies that know the specific move I'm trying to pull off. And no, I do not believe its my lead. The moves are simply too complex. So I have resorted to buying videos and experimenting with moves that look leadable. I really do not have a circle of regular partners, I dance with as many partners as I possibly can. When I first began this was a very frustrating area, because the instructors were teaching complex LA style moves and no matter how much I practiced I could not do them on the dance floor with a stranger. After four years I still can't do them with a stranger (I can however, do them with someone who knows the move). So my suggestion is to experiment with the moves you have learned, see how follows react to your lead. Do the follows keep doing the same thing, do they keep turning a certain way. See if you can lead it different, if not, see if you can change the move. I am constantly changing and experimenting with moves, trying to find a way to lead my patterns with strangers. Good luck and remember, its a dance!

 

[peachexploration]

.... So my suggestion is to experiment with the moves you have learned, see how follows react to your lead. Do the follows keep doing the same thing, do they keep turning a certain way. See if you can lead it different, if not, see if you can change the move. I am constantly changing and experimenting with moves, trying to find a way to lead my patterns with strangers. Good luck and remember, its a dance!

Fantastic suggestions Terremoto! Signs of a great lead!

 

[JonesNikka]

If I may make a suggestion to the leaders in this forum; you do not have to limit yourself to easy patterns if you never led us before all you have to do is start easy and gently, upgrade.

There is nothing more ridiculous than a leader who starts a dance with a fancy move. Save your triple-inverted-overhead-wachamacallit for when you know me better and first show me that you can lead a basic, a spot turn, a cross-body lead a vacila and an enchufe.

Every salsa move is based on one of those five basics, so if you can lead it and I can follow it, then you may upgrade everytime you repeat a pattern. Example: add a turn, do it on the reverse side, do it with a different hand, do it with a different hold, add your turn, style a bit more, do it with out hands, etc.

Before we know it we will be dancing your most advanced moves and you will not have to worry about patterns because ultimatelly, who cares? you can have fun without worrying at what level we dance.

Of course, all this will be lost on those leaders who insist on doing patterns exactly as they saw them on a video and who always practice specific series with that one only partner who saw the same video and is the only girl in the universe who knows what they are trying to do. Pity.

 

[DeeplyDippy]

all you have to do is start easy and gently, upgrade.

Yes, I'd agree with the build up to approach

Though (I've said it before) I do like to walk the lady onto the floor and throw her hand away on the 567. If she turns/spins neatly, I've a good idea of her level.

 

[peachexploration]

.....Every salsa move is based on one of those five basics, so if you can lead it and I can follow it, then you may upgrade everytime you repeat a pattern. Example: add a turn, do it on the reverse side, do it with a different hand, do it with a different hold, add your turn, style a bit more, do it with out hands, etc.

Before we know it we will be dancing your most advanced moves and you will not have to worry about patterns because ultimatelly, who cares? you can have fun without worrying at what level we dance.....

That is the best advice, Nikka. Totally agree.