Did Eddie Torres really invent ET-On2 timing?

SoFloW

SoFloW

Son Montuno
Kudos to ET for everything he did. Also openly stating that he got the timing from ballroom. But check out these dances, which look to me to have been around longer than ET, and different geographically, same timing. Just curiosity.. not that it'd make a lot of difference either way, you dance how you feel.


 
I've never, ever heard of him claiming to have invented the timing he is associated with.

Will watch the vids later.
 
I don't see the same timing. In second video there is so much showoff going on that it's hard to tell if the guy cares about particular details of timing, first video is closer to son. In both he breaks on2 backwards which matches ET2, but when you watch Eddie Torres he emphasizes beat 1 much more and when he gets sloppy he steps on 1 and 3. Which is not what this guy is doing when he's getting sloppy.

With regard to title, ET didn't invent on2, and he didn't claim it. He codified some random style, because ballroom pro made him to, in order to teach more consistently. It's a teaching tool for classes.
 
Smejmoon said:
Watched the rest of the second. He just dances son backwards. Now Terence will come and chastise me for blasphemy.
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The 2nd vid is essentially Son styled, however, he is breaking on 3 and eventually changes to 1 and was previously agreed that Son breaks on 2. I do however like the way he dances. The Fwd/Back commencement kinda contradicts the "call and response" theory.
 
Looking at the first vid. @Smiley79 I think this is the style you wanted to learn a few years back? I think @Latinjazz referred to it 'casino a contratiempo' or something like that?

From this thread:

www.salsaforums.com

On2 to Son?

So I've been doing On2 for 3 years but in light of the trip I'm planning next year (as well as wanting some more of something; versatility I guess), I wanted to know people's thoughts on going from NY/ On2 to Son/Cuban (or whatever the term is for the circular style).I know I definitely don't...
www.salsaforums.com www.salsaforums.com
 
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Smejmoon said:
I don't see the same timing. In second video there is so much showoff going on that it's hard to tell if the guy cares about particular details of timing, first video is closer to son. In both he breaks on2 backwards which matches ET2, but when you watch Eddie Torres he emphasizes beat 1 much more and when he gets sloppy he steps on 1 and 3. Which is not what this guy is doing when he's getting sloppy.
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Yeah. I feel the man in the first video is so much cleaner with his steps. There is clear marking of time. Even when he does improv, it looks really clean. Much prefer it over the second vid, even though it does have its moments.
 
Wish someone would have thrown those interviewers into a river and got two fish to conduct it instead. I feel like people have been asking ET the same questions for decades. Either the interviewers are clueless or they idolize ET to the point of never asking novel questions.
 
When the lead is improvising a lot which it makes it difficult to catch the timing, I watch the follow who tends to be more consistent. In this case it's clear as day the follows in both videos are 123 back breaking on 2 and 567 forward breaking on 6. I guess you can call it a reverse ETOn2 then. To me reverse is the same thing. Style is another story.
 
To keep it simple in my head I just distinguish between dancing on the cowbell vs dancing to the conga, even when some other instrument such as the piano dictates the step. To me going beyond that becomes too much of a puzzle. Together with some othet skills (such as spinning) i gave up on it already :p
 
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TikiTaka said:
To keep it simple in my head I just distinguish between dancing on the cowbell vs dancing to the conga, even when some other instrument such as the piano dictates the step. To me going beyond that becomes too much of a puzzle. Together with some othet skills (such as spinning) i gave up on it already :p
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Yrs.. but you can dance on1, on 2, one, on 4, on 5, on 6 all to the conga.
 
And when you dance with a partner, how many will follow your 'whatever resonates with me' timing? :p

I figured out timing is what keeps partners interested. When dancing alone, timing doesn't matter.
 
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TikiTaka said:
To keep it simple in my head I just distinguish between dancing on the cowbell vs dancing to the conga, even when some other instrument such as the piano dictates the step. To me going beyond that becomes too much of a puzzle. Together with some othet skills (such as spinning) i gave up on it already :p
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I have implied conga drum running through my head all the time :p. Even if I can’t hear it well, I know from the other instruments where it should go.
I am trying to do the same now with Clave. Once I learn implied Clave, I will become unstoppable and I will have earned the right to wear gold shoes, sunglasses , a scarf and a hankerchief out my back pocket every time I go dancing.
 
Chris_Yannick said:
And when you dance with a partner, how many will follow your 'whatever resonates with me' timing?
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So far almost all of them. I still keep it simple nothing advanced. Once, a girl made me change to "On1" from "On5" on a Timba song. And another time, a girl didn't like that i started with the right foot on a Bachata.
 
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TikiTaka said:
So far almost all of them. I still keep it simple nothing advanced. Once, a girl made me change to "On1" from "On5" on a Timba song. And another time, a girl didn't like that i started with the right foot on a Bachata.
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IF she had know any thing about timing she would (should) know that that 5 is really the 1st beat of the 2nd bar so technically, that IS on 1
 
TikiTaka said:
So far almost all of them. I still keep it simple nothing advanced. Once, a girl made me change to "On1" from "On5" on a Timba song. And another time, a girl didn't like that i started with the right foot on a Bachata.
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I definitely dance on 5 with timba. In my brain it feels like on 1. I could verbally assautedin cuba get the offence quite a few times.
I alsonlkje to commence with myvtight got on 1 in bachata. Or dance on 3.
 
TikiTaka said:
And another time, a girl didn't like that i started with the right foot on a Bachata.
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Huh? I always start with my right foot in Bachata. ... isn't this normal?

Edit: Nevermind. I am obviously not normal since I just did my Bachata basic and it feels right to me starting with left or right foot. In any case, I never start traveling from a full stop. I'm stepping on the spot for a few bars, then travelling left or right depending on how I interpret the rhythm.
 
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