Well lately quite a few girs have mentioned how they're avoiding some creepy guys. Didn't hear as much about this in the previous scenes I went to.
Creep Identification
- Thread starter David
- Start date
I would really like to know what people identify as being creepy. I tihnk some scenes have inherently higher tolerance for creepiness than others. Or some actions that are seen as creepy in one scene are merely 'quirky' in another.
In my old scene, creepiness had well defined parameters (if you have to write a list about acceptable vs unacceptable behavior, to me that's pretty definitive) , but that scene is also disingenuous AF.
Something that kbitten wrote earlier really resonated with me. My creepiness detection is also broken I think.
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GentleDancer
Son
One out of the many reasons I prefer Salsa over Bachata (Sensual) / Kizomba is that in Salsa you hardly can come to close during the dance. In those other dances it happens quite often in social that you ask an unknown girl for a dance and she turns out to be a beginner: not knowing those "sensual" figures she may easily feel you come too close. I noticed those faces sometimes and got an uncomfortable feeling myself: I don't like to be seen as creepy. But try to dance Kizomba without coming too close: not possible. I stopped Kizomba anyway.
Fun fact: once a year it happens to me that a girl behaves creepy in Bachata - completely unknown, never danced with, never spoken a word with, but from the first second she presses herself so close to my body that I can hardly breathe. In younger years I would have thought "Oh she is hot for me!". Nowadays I prefer thinking she wants to make jealous somebody in the room watching. Anyway, even if I would like her, this is bad behaviour. It may develop during a dance, but not in the first second.
I read the thread and also liked what kbitten had written and was cited above. Creepiness in northern europe is definitely different as in Spain or Brazil (have been there). Just remember Borat making fun of US citizens feeling harassed when hugged as a greeting.
I remember a Forro class here, where all german girls really kept distance. Then after a switch a brasilian girl came and pressed herself very close to my body, smiling. I think she either had arrived just the day before in europe and just not knowing the cultural difference, or she had fun doing it intentionally and "shocking" those shy german guys here.
She just danced Forro as it was normal to her at home.
But fun apart, as a guy I don't feel threatened or really harassed. It is different for women, because it happens to them not once a year but maybe everyday. Sometimes I ask them what happened and they hardly want to speak about it: apparently some guys do things I would never dare to do.
Fun fact: once a year it happens to me that a girl behaves creepy in Bachata - completely unknown, never danced with, never spoken a word with, but from the first second she presses herself so close to my body that I can hardly breathe. In younger years I would have thought "Oh she is hot for me!". Nowadays I prefer thinking she wants to make jealous somebody in the room watching. Anyway, even if I would like her, this is bad behaviour. It may develop during a dance, but not in the first second.
I read the thread and also liked what kbitten had written and was cited above. Creepiness in northern europe is definitely different as in Spain or Brazil (have been there). Just remember Borat making fun of US citizens feeling harassed when hugged as a greeting.
I remember a Forro class here, where all german girls really kept distance. Then after a switch a brasilian girl came and pressed herself very close to my body, smiling. I think she either had arrived just the day before in europe and just not knowing the cultural difference, or she had fun doing it intentionally and "shocking" those shy german guys here.
She just danced Forro as it was normal to her at home.But fun apart, as a guy I don't feel threatened or really harassed. It is different for women, because it happens to them not once a year but maybe everyday. Sometimes I ask them what happened and they hardly want to speak about it: apparently some guys do things I would never dare to do.
If I were to guess, I'd say it's the socially awkward types that also can't dance or are below average. I've never met a creep who could dance well.
The word I'd use to describe the feeling is ambiguity. In Salsa, I find there is a lot less ambiguity. It's actually very difficult to get people to warm up to a lead in Salsa, whether they are beginner or advanced. You have to adapt, calibrate, all while keeping a distance. If you're really good, you can get someone to warm up to you quickly, but not within 1 second lol.
In the sensual dances, you start off the dance very close. It can of course go terribly wrong but not as often as in Salsa since it is expected.
When Salsa was the only game in town, there was enough reported creepy behavior, but as soon as the sensual dances became more popular, there was an exodus of creeps in the Salsa scene.
I've never felt more uncomfortable dancing than at a pure sensual event. Not only does the music suck and is overtly sexual, but there is like this weird tension in the air. I would rather be goofy and not dance all serious and not be physically close all the time, or dance with my eyes closed. Screw that. Salsa all the way.
1derpalm
Son Montuno
Upper echelon... hard to describe
Different in each scene. It isn't Toronto, though. Even though some of these people are well known there.
I guess my point is that some people that are labeled "creepy" are socially awkward and harmless, but the aforementioned behaviour is accepted because of their status in a scene.
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GentleDancer
Son
Acknowledged. Since this thread started (2013) I suppose all the creepy guys left Salsa for the Urban Kizz scene. Easier to learn and much closer to the targeted bodies. Nowadays as an advanced dancer on a pure Salsa evening I feel no worries from the women at all. Seen this way things have developed not bad for Salsa.
I guess there's some usefulness in being able to BS..
One out of the many reasons I prefer Salsa over Bachata (Sensual) / Kizomba is that in Salsa you hardly can come to close during the dance. In those other dances it happens quite often in social that you ask an unknown girl for a dance and she turns out to be a beginner: not knowing those "sensual" figures she may easily feel you come too close. I noticed those faces sometimes and got an uncomfortable feeling myself: I don't like to be seen as creepy. But try to dance Kizomba without coming too close: not possible. I stopped Kizomba anyway.
Fun fact: once a year it happens to me that a girl behaves creepy in Bachata - completely unknown, never danced with, never spoken a word with, but from the first second she presses herself so close to my body that I can hardly breathe. In younger years I would have thought "Oh she is hot for me!". Nowadays I prefer thinking she wants to make jealous somebody in the room watching. Anyway, even if I would like her, this is bad behaviour. It may develop during a dance, but not in the first second.
I read the thread and also liked what kbitten had written and was cited above. Creepiness in northern europe is definitely different as in Spain or Brazil (have been there). Just remember Borat making fun of US citizens feeling harassed when hugged as a greeting.
I remember a Forro class here, where all german girls really kept distance. Then after a switch a brasilian girl came and pressed herself very close to my body, smiling. I think she either had arrived just the day before in europe and just not knowing the cultural difference, or she had fun doing it intentionally and "shocking" those shy german guys here.
But fun apart, as a guy I don't feel threatened or really harassed. It is different for women, because it happens to them not once a year but maybe everyday. Sometimes I ask them what happened and they hardly want to speak about it: apparently some guys do things I would never dare to do.
IME when it is strictly about dancing, generally girls are more comfortable with dancing closer than the guys. Across the cultures. The degrees may vary.
Somewhere on the forum a number of years back I narrated what a few German girls had to say. Their complaint was German guys don't dance close and are awkward if they have to.
Creepiness has nothing to do with dancing close. People can feel uncomfortable with physical closeness when not used to it. That is understandable. Many or most people who dance regularly are far more comfortable with physical closeness in the dancing.
Creepiness is more about how you make other person feel through your actions, behavior, or words.
GentleDancer
Son
This is most probably true, because it is the same vice versa
Inside a culture it is a mutual relationship between both genders and both shape each others behaviour by many years of experiences. I don't dance or flirt with guys so I can't say they suck - but we probably do
This is most probably true, because it is the same vice versa
In Bachata it is normal to dance close (like in kizomba). Start of bachata music lends itself to start in a close position. In salsa we usually start with open position but during the dancing depending on the music there are parts where you can dance close position for a phrase or a few bars.
You can tell if other person is comfortable with close position or not immediately. The close position itself can range from being few inches apart to pressing on each other. Either can be done without making other person feel disquiet or uncomfortable. As a leader it works both with new to dance followers and those who aren't that use to dancing close.
If a leader is uncomfortable in their skin to initiate dancing close, the other person can feel it. That is what leads to awkwardness. The person wanting or trying to dance close but themselves not being confident or comfortable with it. Due to the nature of dance, as a lead, it is mostly guy who will initiate dancing close and a lady usually would respond. Sometimes it does happen that a follower initiates it. "initiate" is rather a strong word, it is more about who takes the lead in getting close.
My observation is that the female dancers who are new to dancing. When they see others dance, they assume it is expected of them to dance closer, even those with inhibitions. They somehow incorrectly internalize that assumption. Technique is more forgiving when dancing open. There have been countless times I had to put new followers into a more open position.