confused again PR2 vs ET/NY2

timberamayor

timberamayor

Son Montuno
"Puerto-Rican 2". This is exactly like the Eddie Torres 2 except that the leader breaks forward on 2, not 6 music.

Is this correct? I always thought PR2 was just power 2. I am easily confused.
 
I was going to start a very similar thread but feared it would be taken over.

timberamayor said:
"Puerto-Rican 2". This is exactly like the Eddie Torres 2 except that the leader breaks forward on 2, not 6 music.
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This had always been my understanding. And to add I had always thought of it as a cross body style.

But I am seeing from other threads that some people see PR style as something that is not cross body.

I would like some clarification but ideally only from people that actually dance Puerto Rican style and not those who have educated themselves via You Tube.

ps I have been to PR and found all styles danced
 
Tito Ortos at Mambocity this year did a workshop in different styles of On2. First thing he said: puerto rican on 2, ny on 2, break on 6 break on 2, power 2, everybody's talking about the same thing. Just a slight variation.

What I got from that was not "I'm too dumb to see the difference" what I got was "the similarities are more important than the differences".

I really think ppl have to let go of forward/back on 2/6, and the exact timing of the step before the break step (where exactly between 8 and 1, where between 4 and 5)

If your response to this is "but there has to be an agreement or the moves won't work!" then my answer to that is: he leads; she follows. If you lead or follow is not enough to overcome your preconceptions about timing during the dance, then that is what you have to work on. You either have to increase your lead / follow or reduce your preconceptions.
 
PR2 is 234 678 with similar steps to "on1" except one beat later (ie. cross body lead on 6)
ET2 is 123 567 with different steps and dynamic compared to on1. The 123 567 steps of "on1" fit in : 671 and 235. The 1 and 5 steps tend to extend a bit. This is why ET2 feels do different and more "elastic": there is no strong 4,8 pause, it's more of a 3rd step that extends between 8-1, 4-5. The 2, 6 break steps (and associated lead that builds up on 1/5) are usually softer as a result.

PS: the first "on2" style I learned was PR2, in the "salsabor" school (www.salsabor.fr). I quickly left for another school though, as the socially danced styles in Paris are on1 and ET2, not PR2.
 
sweavo said:
".

I really think ppl have to let go of forward/back on 2/6, and the exact timing of the step before the break step (where exactly between 8 and 1, where between 4 and 5)
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So true !.. for many reasons, musically speaking . IF we do not alternate our timing and rhythm, then it will become robotic ( much of what we see in clubs today ) .

Someone commented on my timing in the vid clip being on 3.. what no one knows, is this.. in the class ,I had demoed the basic mambo on 2, and also talked about how some PRs start to dance, and use 3 as a break I think,( if I recall ), I also showed how to go from 1 to 3 and that may have been partly the reason .
 
tresto said:
PR2 is 234 678 with similar steps to "on1" except one beat later (ie. cross body lead on 6)
ET2 is 123 567 with different steps and dynamic compared to on1. The 123 567 steps of "on1" fit in : 671 and 235. The 1 and 5 steps tend to extend a bit. This is why ET2 feels do different and more "elastic": there is no strong 4,8 pause, it's more of a 3rd step that extends between 8-1, 4-5. The 2, 6 break steps (and associated lead that builds up on 1/5) are usually softer as a result.

PS: the first "on2" style I learned was PR2, in the "salsabor" school (www.salsabor.fr). I quickly left for another school though, as the socially danced styles in Paris are on1 and ET2, not PR2.
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Agree with your notes about the different feels, but there are problems with your terminology.

What you are calling PR2, some call "Power2" or "Palladium 2"
Many, when they say PR2, mean ET2 but with the man going forward on the 2 instead of 6.

I notice your first teacher is French. It's worth noting that in France, "Portoricaine" basically means slot style as opposed to Cuban.
 
If I recall correctly, they called it "palladium" in the school.
I got the name PR2 from when I met Troy: he told me his on2 was "puerto rican on2". Then again it's no absolute reference, as it seems like there are different people using different names in different contexts.
I was comparing Palladium/Power2 with ET2 indeed, I wasn't aware that there was a "reverse ET2" that many people would call PR2.
 
sweavo said:
Tito Ortos at Mambocity this year did a workshop in different styles of On2. First thing he said: puerto rican on 2, ny on 2, break on 6 break on 2, power 2, everybody's talking about the same thing. Just a slight variation.

What I got from that was not "I'm too dumb to see the difference" what I got was "the similarities are more important than the differences".

I really think ppl have to let go of forward/back on 2/6, and the exact timing of the step before the break step (where exactly between 8 and 1, where between 4 and 5)

If your response to this is "but there has to be an agreement or the moves won't work!" then my answer to that is: he leads; she follows. If you lead or follow is not enough to overcome your preconceptions about timing during the dance, then that is what you have to work on. You either have to increase your lead / follow or reduce your preconceptions.
Click to expand...

You should print this out on a poster and hang it up on the wall!
 
tresto said:
PR2 is 234 678 with similar steps to "on1" except one beat later (ie. cross body lead on 6)
ET2 is 123 567 with different steps and dynamic compared to on1. The 123 567 steps of "on1" fit in : 671 and 235. The 1 and 5 steps tend to extend a bit. This is why ET2 feels do different and more "elastic": there is no strong 4,8 pause, it's more of a 3rd step that extends between 8-1, 4-5. The 2, 6 break steps (and associated lead that builds up on 1/5) are usually softer as a result.
Click to expand...
This pretty much explains it!!!
 
tresto said:
If I recall correctly, they called it "palladium" in the school.
I got the name PR2 from when I met Troy: he told me his on2 was "puerto rican on2". Then again it's no absolute reference, as it seems like there are different people using different names in different contexts.
I was comparing Palladium/Power2 with ET2 indeed, I wasn't aware that there was a "reverse ET2" that many people would call PR2.
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What Troy dances is indeed "reverse ET2" and not Power2.
 
Here's a video of Tito y Tamara explaining the PR 0n2 basic step. Definitely stepping on 123 567 but the direction seems the usual ET2 - guys break back on 2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKsrKMx2wHE
I think I agree with Sweavo however - lets not get hung up on direction or what is happening with steps other than being sure to hit the 23 67
 
"How do you dance in PR",me asking a friend who goes there every year..i wanna see if the direction had anything to do with the type of clave, or if they really dont do the " time changes"


Her answer" i dance ET on2 but my 2 is back" ..yes, puerto rico on2 is reverse to ET
 
kbitten said:
"How do you dance in PR",me asking a friend who goes there every year..i wanna see if the direction had anything to do with the type of clave, or if they really dont do the " time changes"


Her answer" i dance ET on2 but my 2 is back" ..yes, puerto rico on2 is reverse to ET
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while following it's hard to notice if the leader is stepping
on 4 or 5. what you can notice easily is the 2 and 6 since depending on the style this is when you get the lead. so, for your friend it might feel the same as reversed et. we should ask a pr guy as well.
or how instructors count in the classes? 234 or 123?

afaik, et introduced the prep step on the first count to on2 dancing in order to make it easier for people. this is why counts like 123.
 
olamalam said:
while following it's hard to notice if the leader is stepping
on 4 or 5. what you can notice easily is the 2 and 6 since depending on the style this is when you get the lead. so, for your friend it might feel the same as reversed et. we should ask a pr guy as well.
or how instructors count in the classes? 234 or 123?

afaik, et introduced the prep step on the first count to on2 dancing in order to make it easier for people. this is why counts like 123.
Click to expand...

2010 our congress was a " tribute to PR" congress so we had tito, the palladium legends, dicky, jayson, the chacha guy( forgot his name) among others ..the only ones not pr were adolfo, maykel fonts and a colombian couple from const latina..they count 123, 567 .

They reverse the ET when they feel the lady is confortable and i danced with them both pr on2 or et on2 ..i guess was their musical choice so i just follow..it makes no difference for me..

Maykel fonts is another one who dances both directions, cause he dances " contratiempo" and he more than once started et on2 and the goes pron2 in the same song..on the videos i have from pr congress the girls step the one and go back on2 ...many dance thay way but the older generation dances like et on2 ..

I go with sweavo tito quote..we are all talking about the same thing
 
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