Compact dancing

Chris_Yannick

Chris_Yannick

Super Moderator
Staff member
I personally hate dancing in small spaces. When a venue gets too crowded, I find I am limited in the number of patterns i'm allowed to safely execute. This has a negative effect on my dancing. There is little room for creativity since I am forced to dance super controlled. So instead I sit out until the crowd start to thin out. The problem with this is that a lot of the advanced dancers are on the floor when it's busy, and I feel like i'm missing out by standing on the sidelines and thus wasting my money.

I've been observing dancers and their selection of moves, especially when in close quarters. I find one of 3 things happen. Some only dance basics or in closed position. A few others continue dancing their normal style and make absolutely no adjustments when it gets crowded. While there are still others who can seemingly adjust on the fly and are able to execute complicated turn patterns while keeping their partner secure.

I want to be part of that last camp of dancers. However, I need a completely new set of moves for compact dancing.

To accomplish this, I am going to limit the amount of traveling turns for the lady and absolutely no free spins. I'm also trying to limit the amount of 360 CBLs (aka Coca-colas). The bulk of my move arsenal comprises of variations of the above, which makes it even more difficult for me to dance small.

Instead, I am trying to come up with an entirely new set of patterns for compact dancing using a combination of misdirections, hand switches, cradling in closed positions, and self-turns.

These days I learn new patterns mostly from watching salsa celebs on youtube. Yet in every video I see, those celebs are given a ton of space to freely move about and are basically doing "performance" moves, which I feel aren't suitable in a crowd. I'd love to see a video of a salsa celeb given little to no space and see how they fare. I'm sure they exist, I just haven't come across any

How do you adjust when you are forced to dance small? What are some of your favorite "small dance" moves? I'm looking to steal a few :)
 
Do your moves, just keep this in mind
1. Smaller steps
2. Never fully extend your arms (which you shouldn't be doing, anyway)
3. Elbow other dancers around you when you need more space
 
i think this is definitly where colombian style is handy

the move these couple are doing from :6 to :16 is a very common colombian dance position.
youtube.com/watch?v=TdNEbX2ySNo&feature=related

i go to see a live salsa band every week in my town and the place they play in, has virtually NO dancelfoor..they also play really fast music.
you can fit literally about 3 couples doing cross body or cuban at one time in front of where the band plays. and when it packs up you can forget about it. i was suffering in that bar when i only knew cuban..
but i have gotten loads of fun out of switching between the colombian basics in these situations. because you can do some steps that really get into the rythm of the music in a small space, and then squeeze in a slow motion turn of the lady now and again. :D
 
Chris_Yannick said:
So instead I sit out until the crowd start to thin out.
Click to expand...
I'd say I fall into the third group you mentioned in your second paragraph, but I still sometimes choose to sit out until the crowd thins a bit just because I don't feel like dealing with the stress. That said, lolita is correct here. You can still do most of what you want to do, you just need to take smaller steps, keep your arms in, and keep yourself centered. This allows you to keep more control over your follower. I mean control as in the ability to get her out of the way when there's danger, you'll still want to give her freedom to move. Don't be afraid to abort a move if there's not enough space to finish or there is about to be a collision. Move the lady out of harm's way before you do anything else. Trust me, followers appreciate your keeping them from getting hit more than they do your getting all the way through your moves.

I don't know that you need to seek out a whole new set of moves just for this unless you were already going to add a bunch of moves anyway. I personally have some moves that I don't do when it's crowded because they're just big, but I find I can do most things still including 360 CBLs and free spins. You have to keep the loop on the 360 small and don't send the lady out too far on the CBL. You're both on almost the same spot during the 360 part, so it's just a matter of gauging distance for the CBL part. I like to "split the distance" from the center and send her a couple steps while walking a couple steps myself. For free spins you have to just stay close and watch out for her. I like to use my arms as "bumper rails", so to speak (I do actually hold them out on either side of her if I think she's not on balance). As long as you're close you can also collect and move her a little early if necessary to avoid a collision. I tend to do less turns myself mainly because I don't want to lose track of my surroundings while turning, not to mention the fact that I can't move the lady out of the way if I'm busy spinning myself.

Of course all of the above depends on the follower's skill level as well. If she's not taking small steps and/or staying on balance herself, then you'll just really have to simplify and stay close. If, however, she's a good follower and can carry herself well, then you can basically dance the same only smaller.
 
I agree. I don't think small spaces by itself should be a detriment to your dancing repertoire unless the follower refuses to adjust. Naturally you may need to limit traveling moves. Also it requires other dancers to be respectful. There is one dance in this area where I am where that isn't the case. YOu almost always get elbowed, stepped on, kicked...no matter what you do.

There usually are some spots on the dance floor where one can minimize the effect of other dancers. A corner of the dance floor is one of them. When it is packed I always search for one of these spots and glue myself to them for the night.
 
Not sure I like the corner of a dance floor. A butterfly move seems so weird when directed at a wall or empty corner. It's nicer to do it in the middle of the floor. :)
 
lolita said:
Do your moves, just keep this in mind
1. Smaller steps
2. Never fully extend your arms (which you shouldn't be doing, anyway)
3. Elbow other dancers around you when you need more space
Click to expand...

Yea what she said, lol except for #3. Do not however "cower into a ball" by bringing your hands very close together and having your elbows against your body. Elbows always out in front of your body and away from your body, that way you assert your space.

Last time I was in NY was at an LVG social and of course it was crowded. For about an hour I was in a space where I was flanked with 3 very good couples and we each had our tight spaces and not once was there even a hint of a possibility of a collision. Long complex combos, shines, all executed without having to worry about your neighbor, it was awesome. Which is why it drives me crazy when I go to a club and "advanced" dancers hit me when in comparison to the amount of room I had in LVG is like a plank to the pirate ship.

Anyway, dancing effectively in tight spaces also require you to have a partner with the same awareness. Otherwise, you will have to "dumb down" your repertoire for the sake of both your safety. Its not impossible to learn how to dance "tight." Keep it simple in the early going, then when you determine that you are both able to maintain close quarters, slightly increase the difficulty, and again, this depends on the awareness and the level of your partner.
 
lolita said:
Do your moves, just keep this in mind
1. Smaller steps
2. Never fully extend your arms (which you shouldn't be doing, anyway)
3. Elbow other dancers around you when you need more space
Click to expand...

3 annoys people. I use my hip instead. They all think that I accidentally hit them with my hip but open a space to breath anyway. Thanks to my belly dancing background :P
 
Chris_Yannick said:
I personally hate dancing in small spaces. When a venue gets too crowded, I find I am limited in the number of patterns i'm allowed to safely execute. This has a negative effect on my dancing. There is little room for creativity since I am forced to dance super controlled. So instead I sit out until the crowd start to thin out. The problem with this is that a lot of the advanced dancers are on the floor when it's busy, and I feel like i'm missing out by standing on the sidelines and thus wasting my money.
Click to expand...

One of my unforgattable dances was (In Zurich congress) almost on the spot and it was why I was surprised and amazed. She was so good and well prepared for packed dance floor. The only place we could find to dance was surrounded by an amplifier & wall & flowerpot and another couple!

I think responsibility is fifty-fifty on this subject.
 
I appreciate when leads take a look where they are sending their follows. On the crowded floor I tend to change slot directions if space is available, sometimes I see other guy flinging his lady the same direction, then we both turn them around and I like that feeling of mutual understanding. :)
 
Sometimes the most stressful thing about dancing on a crowded floor is wondering if I'm going to back up in to someone or someone is going to step on me. I can't relax if I am worried this is going to inevitably happen because other dancers are wild and don't stay in a slot and don't watch where they are going. What makes a dance great is when you know your partner is going to "protect" you, so you can relax and all you have to do is make sure your steps are small, you stay close to him and replace your back step with a step in place, or tap or whatever else you can do there, I can't remember.. but I do know that's how I get stepped on a lot, is when my right foot goes back.
 
MacMoto said:
You may find this thread interesting (well, the first 2 pages anyway, before the local chit-chat took over):
Compact moves?: http://www.salsaforums.com/showthread.php?t=14579
Click to expand...


Thank you!! This video in particular caught my attention:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cp6cxWQBLEA

I'm amazed at how small they dance despite having so much room to operate. Of course, the song is also slow, which I believe makes it easier to dance small.

I notice he uses a lot of two-hand connections to exchange positions, and his hand switches are lightning quick. I find those patterns harder to execute because as a leader, you have to know exactly how to un-tangle yourself without hurting your partner, which is difficult to visualize and you need a willing partner who doesn't mind being used as a ragdoll to practice with. Whereas any type of open break move I find much easier to visualize. I practice at home alone, and when I go out, I ALWAYS fall back on what I know. It's very frustrating.
 
Yes, the fallback is recognisable. When in stress or doubt, I fall back on moves that I learned in my first half of my whole Salsa experience, because these moves are 'internalized' and the later moves are not yet. Just means that more practice is needed for the 'newer' moves.

I also notice I can maintain eye contact very well and relax more when doing the internalized moves. For the moves that I - secretly - still have to think about, I'm more tense and more turned inward in my thoughts.
 
Chris_Yannick said:
Thank you!! This video in particular caught my attention:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cp6cxWQBLEA

I'm amazed at how small they dance despite having so much room to operate. Of course, the song is also slow, which I believe makes it easier to dance small.
Click to expand...

Dancing small IS more difficult and requires much better technique from both parties.
BUT
IMHO it's how you should learn to dance from day 1! If you can dance small then dancing big is easy, if however you learn to dance big then changing to dance small is a whole other World :D

The speed of the music doesn't really pay that much of a part in it other than at speed the technique has to be even better. It's all about control.
Control of body, space and time.
Dancing small with complex combinations requires the dancers to be in total control of their own bodies. It also requires the control of space in that I move my hip 2cm - just enough for my partner to pass without affecting her balance, just as see passes I move into the space she vacated. Like two cogs revolving around one another. It also requires the dancers to use time correctly, example the leader might dely his spin a half beat to allow his partners shoulder to be in the exact position for him to spin without hinderance.

I very rarely dance any bigger than what was happening in the video and too be quite honest it usually occures on slower tracks, especially cha cha's.
It's not something you'll learn over night but IMHO it's how the dance should be danced - up close!:D

One of the problems with dancing small - especially in crowded clubs is other dancers who don't share the compact attitude "suck up" the space you've left for yourself and you end up either fighting for space or just doing a basic step!:(
[/QUOTE]
 
People should just sit out when it gets too crowded. Seriously, the floor has a certain capacity and if you arrive late you may have to sit out and wait for the next song. Of course, this never happens and people will just cram and it gets ugly.

I actually go on the offensive when it gets tight because the alternative is far worse. If I don't guard my small space, some chode will come in and shove me out. So, now i am careful not to spend to much time in the top portion of my slot and will do a cross body and to utilize the space so that it's clear it's in use and not available.
 
Chris_Yannick said:
Thank you!! This video in particular caught my attention:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cp6cxWQBLEA

I'm amazed at how small they dance despite having so much room to operate. Of course, the song is also slow, which I believe makes it easier to dance small.

I notice he uses a lot of two-hand connections to exchange positions, and his hand switches are lightning quick. I find those patterns harder to execute because as a leader, you have to know exactly how to un-tangle yourself without hurting your partner, which is difficult to visualize and you need a willing partner who doesn't mind being used as a ragdoll to practice with. Whereas any type of open break move I find much easier to visualize. I practice at home alone, and when I go out, I ALWAYS fall back on what I know. It's very frustrating.
Click to expand...

Sweet! Jimmy Yoon, he teaches in D.C. Really fun to dance with and has a ton of interesting moves.
 
mangomotion said:
Chris_Yannick said:
Thank you!! This video in particular caught my attention:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cp6cxWQBLEA

I'm amazed at how small they dance despite having so much room to operate. Of course, the song is also slow, which I believe makes it easier to dance small.

I notice he uses a lot of two-hand connections to exchange positions, and his hand switches are lightning quick. I find those patterns harder to execute because as a leader, you have to know exactly how to un-tangle yourself without hurting your partner, which is difficult to visualize and you need a willing partner who doesn't mind being used as a ragdoll to practice with. Whereas any type of open break move I find much easier to visualize. I practice at home alone, and when I go out, I ALWAYS fall back on what I know. It's very frustrating.
Click to expand...

Sweet! Jimmy Yoon, he teaches in D.C. Really fun to dance with and has a ton of interesting moves.
Click to expand...
Mmm nice :)

Yes a good demonstration of how you can use two-handed moves to keep your slot compact. (And of course having a follower who's good at controlling her travel also helps ;))
 
Sometimes it's ace being all close and limited to what you do. For a leader I guess it gives you a break from "having" to do all these complex moves and just chill out. Similar to why I like bachata, nice wee break to wobble.
 
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