Clave "jump"?

L

Lemato

Changui
Hey guys,
I am new to this forum, so I hope this is the right place for my question.
I am trying to get the hang of the 2:3 vs 3:2 thing. I am aware that this can change within a song, which usually requires an extra measure inserted such that the flow of the clave does not get interrupted. I have read that there are only very few exceptions to this. However I keep getting the impression that in grupo niche's "sin sentimiento" this actually happens around 2:01.
Could anybody let me know, if my hearing is off here, or could somebody confirm my impression?
Thanks in advance for any help I can get!
 
Clave direction doesn't necessarily require an extra measure.
Please listen to the intro (until :11)
And then next part (:12). Different clave direction. This repeats a few times in the song. Keep your riming and don't change direction lol.
 
Most modern songs have 2:3 clave and the 2 side has more even beats (listen to the above passage. When it switches to the 3 side as the LEADING side at :12, the notes are more symcopated) so it seems to be the prevailing side to start a musical phrase.
Imo if your dancing on 1 then clave direction matters (sometimes, except for those pesky timbas) as there is only 1 way to dance on 1.
On2 you have different acceptable ways of on 2 so you can go in either direction with out as much incident (my theory but my on2 game is not strong).
 
Lemato said:
Hey guys,
I am new to this forum, so I hope this is the right place for my question.
I am trying to get the hang of the 2:3 vs 3:2 thing. I am aware that this can change within a song, which usually requires an extra measure inserted such that the flow of the clave does not get interrupted. I have read that there are only very few exceptions to this. However I keep getting the impression that in grupo niche's "sin sentimiento" this actually happens around 2:01.
Could anybody let me know, if my hearing is off here, or could somebody confirm my impression?
Thanks in advance for any help I can get!
Click to expand...
Hello Lemato!
I just checked.
IMO, there is no irregularity of the clave at 2:01. They have a stop on the "1" of the 3-side and go on with the 2-side.
By the way, already in the verses before there are parts in 2-3 and (mostly) in 3-2 by coming "one bar too early" with the phrases. But the clave stays constant the whole song, at least this is what I hear.

Usual or traditional way would be: Start of song in 3-2, at some point a stop on 1 or the whole band playing the rhythm of the 3-side, and directly after the piano montuno starting on the 2-side - which makes the whole song "change" to 2-3.

I hope this is understandable like this.. It's hard to explain in written form and in English...
 
Hey guys, sorry for the late answer. Really apreciated your coments and help. I was too busy to answer, but after reading them I listened to the song some more, and I agree now, The clave doesn't change. Some of the brass breaks had confused me. Thank you guys. :-)
 
Two things to add:

1. In S American salsa, up until very recently, adherence to and understanding of clave was generally nowhere near as strict as is found in NY and PR salsa.

2. The topic of clave changes comes up a lot on this forum. With some searching you can find lots more info, should you wish. Maybe clave jump, clave change or clave license would be good terms to search for (I don't have time to search for you).
 
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