Clave Do's and Don'ts, By Instrument

BullitproofSoul

BullitproofSoul

Son Montuno
Hi all,

I’m starting this thread: “Claves Do’s and Don’t, by Instrument.” I’m hoping to add to my knowledge.

I have a few ideas on clave do’s and don’t, I imagine the knowledgeable members of this forum know much more.

So here’s what I’m proposing we do.



List an instrument you know, then articulate as many of the rules for clave for that instrument as you can think of.

Don’t worry about cramming everything you know about that instrument, just how it relates to the clave.



What I then plan to do is to put it altogether into a neat Table for everyone to be able to study, easily download, or even print and pin up on a wall where a band might rehearse.



Here are some categories:

Voice

Piano

Bass

Congas

Bongos

Timbales

Minor Percussion (Maracas, Guiro, Clave)

Horns



OK, I’ll Start:



Piano (2-3 Clave)

∙ Should play on 1 / Should not play on 5∙ Chord Changes on 1

Piano (3-2 Clave)

∙ Should not play on 1 / Should play on 5∙ Chord Changes on 8& before 1
 
sorry about the double posts...

5?

Yes, if you're counting a full measure as 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8, then "5" marks the beginning of the second half of the measure. In a 2-3 Clave, the piano wouldn't land on the 5 (for whatever reason) since it marks the beginning of the 3 side.

@Saulpaul - I've seen those videos before; they're good!

Anybody else want to chime in on how the other instruments of the orchestra should relate to clave?
 
BullitproofSoul said:
sorry about the double posts...

5?

Yes, if you're counting a full measure as 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8, then "5" marks the beginning of the second half of the measure. In a 2-3 Clave, the piano wouldn't land on the 5 (for whatever reason) since it marks the beginning of the 3 side.
Click to expand...

That's not going to be obvious to most people. Whether you write in 8th notes or 16th notes, salsa is written in 4/4. Your way would be 8/4. Doesn't change how it sounds, it just makes it really confusing to discuss.
 
I agree completely. Whenever I discuss rhythm in any other genre, I tend to discuss a measure in terms of 1 2 3 4. But whenever I'm in a conversation about Salsa rhythm, including dancers, it tends to be in terms of 12345678. Someone correct me if I'm way off on this.

Anyway, I'm willing to discuss it in whatever terms, as long as we get some insight into instruments relating to clave. Got anything to share about that? :)
 
Fair enough. We'll discuss this in whatever terms you guys are comfortable with.

So, anyone have anything to add to the discussion on relating instruments to clave.
 
So here is a bit "rearticulated", in 1-2-3-4 format:

Piano (2-3 Clave)

∙ Should play on 1 / Should not play on 3
∙ Chord Changes on 1

Piano (3-2 Clave)

∙ Should not play on 1 / Should play on 3
∙ Chord Changes on the 4 "& a" before 1
 
tallpaul said:
Here's a couple of lovely tutorial videos about fitting piano montunos to the clave.

Piano: 2-3 Clave

Piano: 3-2 Clave
Click to expand...

Those are some great videos. I am just learning how to play the piano and will definitely be taking a look at these videos once I progress to this level. Thanks for sharing.
 
Awesome! Can we have this now explained for something the piano in Oye Como Va for instance...

We need this now for the bass.
 
I can draw up a pattern for the complex cowbell and the conga marcha (tumbao) that align with the 2/3 and 3/2 son clave, keeping in mind I am not a musician, but have always been good with rhythm/timing and based on my own study.
 
/off topic

Oye Como Va - one of my absolute faves!!!

When I have time today I'll draw up some tumbao and cowbell patterns relating to clave.
 
BullitproofSoul said:
I agree completely. Whenever I discuss rhythm in any other genre, I tend to discuss a measure in terms of 1 2 3 4. But whenever I'm in a conversation about Salsa rhythm, including dancers, it tends to be in terms of 12345678. Someone correct me if I'm way off on this.

:)
Click to expand...



It depends upon with whom you speak.

All "trained " teachers,( not talkin about "stage " types ) are taught to count in beats AND Bars .In quicks and slows, and numerically .
 
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