Can someone explain the role of women in Cuban salsa partnerwork?
- Thread starter AguaDulce
- Start date
Follow the lead and look sexy - the same as in slotty styles, really, just done in a different way.
I do remember some people saying that Cuban style is more about the man showing off while slot styles (esp on2) are more about showing the woman off. But this point seems to be lost on some (?) of the slot style leaders...
I do remember some people saying that Cuban style is more about the man showing off while slot styles (esp on2) are more about showing the woman off. But this point seems to be lost on some (?) of the slot style leaders...
sweavo
Changui
I do remember some people saying that Cuban style is more about the man showing off while slot styles (esp on2) are more about showing the woman off. But this point seems to be lost on some (?) of the slot style leaders...
I certainly see the former -- the move where the guy cocks his leg over the arm connection or leads with his foot, or the Son moves where the lady is just a power source for his fancy balancing act.
This is one part of Cuban dancing that I like. The lady seems to be totally focused on the man. Maybe I am wrong, but with the lady going around the man it appears as though the man is the center of attention in the dance. I'm not saying this in a nagative way. This is a quality that I like. I was just wondering if this is strongly communicated during the learning phase.
Yes.... think of the man as the " centre " which the lady rotates around . The transitions ( from one variation to the next ) may seem quicker, but of course they are the same speed, rotation creates that illusion .
The Cuban style is more rhythmic and flowing than the other styles. The man does always initiate the moves, and it is true that the woman doesn't have the 'time' to style as such. But, for me, there is give and take there, as I don't much care for the stop-start nature of the on2 style especially. It interrupts the flow for me anyway. The natural rhythm of Cuban style dancing is very pronounced.
I also like the body movement aspect of Cuban salsa. There is more body movement for the man than the other styles, and that gives the woman the chance to follow that, and express herself too. The way that most on2 male leads hardly move their hips seems quite strange to me.
So, yes, no isolated styling, but the integrated and natural patterns of Cuban dance allow for a lot of expression - for the guy and the girl.
I also like the body movement aspect of Cuban salsa. There is more body movement for the man than the other styles, and that gives the woman the chance to follow that, and express herself too. The way that most on2 male leads hardly move their hips seems quite strange to me.
So, yes, no isolated styling, but the integrated and natural patterns of Cuban dance allow for a lot of expression - for the guy and the girl.
opm1s6
Son
that's an interesting personal perspective. I find on2 to be anything but stop/start...hell you could make even make on1 not be so stop/start, but it comes down to how you do it. Cuban is more fluid without a doubt, it's the very nature of the partner relationship, but to characterize on2 as stop/start is probably not the proper description. I think you probably mean the back and forth nature of it and even that can be significantly reduced with change of places, cuban inspired moves, swing/waltz steps and a variety of other moves that circumvent the constraint that you see in the slot shape. Regardless AD's question had a lot more to do with the woman's role and not which one is more fluid.
I've never danced in the cuban style, but it seems that the connection to the guy is a significantly higher percentage two handed with little release and constant circular motion and is in fact a constraint to styling as I know it. Now styling as I know it here in NYC might not be attractive to you, but it's based on the natural push and pull of the basic and the grounding off of the floor, allowing for a foundation for the rest of the body to move with this force from the floor. Styling for follows is based significantly on moments when the guy is doing his thing through/or under her arms, or moments when she has a free hand(s). Body movement is additionally placed on checks and tension moves, which seem fairly absent from the cuban I've seen. I'd love if you could educate us with a few videos and point out the styling that you're seeing, because I really am rather uneducated on how flexible and variable cuban can be.
I'm not trying to start a qualitative discussion comparing styles. I just wanted to know more about the women's role and said I like the conceptual framework for Cuban dancing as Terrence and others discribed it.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion so I will just say that I don't agree with your generalizations about On2 because within that choice of timing there are many different styles and I personally know dancers that are constantly on the move and with mucho sabor.
When someone talks about the way Cuban salsa appears to focus on the man more than anything, it seems that to me that we would naturally compare how this relates to dancing in other styles. Maybe that is how I think about this anyway - because the differences between the styles do seem quite pronounced to me. Each having their own particular strengths of course.
One of my teachers likes to mix on1 steps into her Cuban moves, because she said that this gives the girl more opportunity to do her styling. This seems a fair point I think....
Point well taken. I've seen dancers incorporate the Cuban style into ET On2 in some ways as well.
bailar y tocar
Son Montuno
I can't speak for what follows learn in Cuban salsa classes, what I can speak to is dancing with Cuban street trained dancers. Both men and women act very "macho" and athletic in Cuban dance. The styling elements of slot styles would look out of place. When there is styling it is typically very raunchy and could look quite vulgar to an outsider.
Also, the man moves around the woman as much as the woman moves around the man, thats how the tension and tug-of-war like feel is created.
Can you please illustrate when you say incorporating Cuban style in ETon2.
Not to go off on a tangent, but i know some On2 dancers that use some of the pretzel combos from the Cuban dancers.
This makes sense.
About 70% of what I teach could broadly be described as Cuban style. I advise both leaders and followers to focus on their partner. I actually think it is quite difficult not to focus on your partner when dancing moves with a circular pattern.
In contrast, I don't like the way some entirely linear leaders at socials hardly seem to look at their partner at all during a dance and just lead the follower as though she is an object rather than a person. (I am not making a generalisation here, it is only a proportion)
Variations, by and large, are generic, they may be adapted to ANY style.. after all, the majority of what you dance comes out of Swing , Bolero, Danzon etc.
I'm talking about ET On2, lol.
The role of the woman is to look sexy. That is the capital S in the salsa. In the more linear salsa styles. The shines give the lady a time to show off her feathers like a peahen and the man like a peacock. In cuban salsa the subtle movements in hips( styling) when changing direction allow the woman to show her sexuality from her hips. I am sure many of you will agree that a woman can look sexy when dressed in a revealing outfit and in a less reavealing outfit as well.
The shines as bailar y tocar has mentioned tend to be very rauncy & vulgar to the western(European & American) salsa markets. In other words the shines are avoided in these markets because you can't deal will the physicality.
By the way I lead both styles and my apologies in advance to all those I have offended in my first post.
The shines as bailar y tocar has mentioned tend to be very rauncy & vulgar to the western(European & American) salsa markets. In other words the shines are avoided in these markets because you can't deal will the physicality.
By the way I lead both styles and my apologies in advance to all those I have offended in my first post.