Book says on2 meaning first step at 2?

[Offbeat]

interesting take on "don't count" here, I wonder if that science holds up? good ad for his course at any rate

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We have for a long while made the argument that he makes at the start. Gist on arguments on SF has been:

Counting distracts brain/concentration from being able to listen to the rhythm and ability to then dance or step to the rhythm. One of the two - rhythm or counting has to be in the background. If you are counting your brain gets focused on keeping the count consistent (not same as keeping the stepping to the count consistent).

If you get used to stepping to the count it is same as stepping to the metronome. Then when you have to react to the rhythm in the music, you have got too used to stepping to the count rather than expressing the rhythm with your steps. Not to mentioning dancing ahead of the beat or behind the beat. Which is whole another discussion we have had.

To best I know there is no scientific studies to back this up. Perhaps it would be an interesting study. But having seen may dancers in salsa where counting is a gospel and non salsa dances where counting is used as an aid to explain but not dogmatically passed on to students as in salsa - it strongly suggests starting off by concentrating on counts (metronome) rather than rhythm produces deficient dancers. They can step. But they can’t dance. Hence lack of musicality.

 

[Offbeat]

On the counting topic, started some small classes, trying to do something different to patterny repeat after me to the count. Did not go well, I think I've just repelled pattern dancers more than anything . Absolute beginners seem to pick it up better than established dancers. Had two newbies picking up the cu cun pa in cha cha cha better than established salsa dancers who kept asking for counts and couldn't get over the not starting on 1 thing. But I'm determined to try and keep going because it's pretty obvious this is what's holding back so many dancers.

I am not surprised.

It will take longer to change those who are already conditioned- have built certain muscle memory as well as brain memory to the counts. It is like you are disturbing an established structure in their brains.

So not surprising that beginners find it easy. They are like a blank paper.

I think Joel Dominguez video of how to dance on2 in different ways matching the rhythm of conga or clave is more useful method/style to introduce/teach the pattern dancers who struggle without count.

There might be other better ones. I don’t view salsa videos.

 

[Offbeat]

If we want to escape the prison of counting then connect to the music/rhythm on the last beat of the 4/4 cycle, which is the gong-gong of the tumbao. Dancing On1, On2, On3, On4 no longer needs to follow the arithmetic progression starting from 1 where we calculate (brain) where to mark our first step. The gong-gong of the tumbao (feeling) is now our entry point absent counting.

We can now dance on all four timings without counting:

On1: no step
On2: 1 step
On3: 2 steps
On4: 3 steps

Each of these has a unique feeling to them. When your body memorizes them you can switch between them at will without any thought.

Adding numeric labels to the 4 or 8 beats to help people understand the overall structure of the dance is a path to hell paved by good intensions. Once on this path you fall prisoner to the arithmetic progression. As dancers this is the last place we want to be.

Are you the guy that created that IG video?

 

[SalsaMech]

Are you the guy that created that IG video?

That guy is Musa Starseed and he would never bother with a low level salsa forum like this one. He over complicates the teaching of musicality as it pertains to basic salsa timing. I can tell you that he is a promoter of counting as a tool for beginner dancers. This is a big no-no in my book.

 

[MAMBO_CEC]

That guy is Musa Starseed and he would never bother with a low level salsa forum like this one. He over complicates the teaching of musicality as it pertains to basic salsa timing. I can tell you that he is a promoter of counting as a tool for beginner dancers. This is a big no-no in my book.

The guy Musa Starseed is a DJ and an event planner from Boulder Colorado, When I lived in Colorado I used to check out his events. With regards to him not coming on SF. If you check out his videos, you would realise that the vast majority of his content has been discussed at some point on this forum. I can’t think of anywhere else you can find the depth of knowledge about salsa aka Afro Cuban dance music and its related dances. Not even on Reddit. With regards to what he is marketing, it’s just another way of teaching, not everyone responds to counts, lots of people struggle to find the 1 let alone the 2. In Salsa there is no right way or wrong way.

 

[Offbeat]

The guy Musa Starseed is a DJ and an event planner from Boulder Colorado, When I lived in Colorado I used to check out his events. With regards to him not coming on SF. If you check out his videos, you would realise that the vast majority of his content has been discussed at some point on this forum. I can’t think of anywhere else you can find the depth of knowledge about salsa aka Afro Cuban dance music and its related dances. Not even on Reddit. With regards to what he is marketing, it’s just another way of teaching, not everyone responds to counts, lots of people struggle to find the 1 let alone the 2. In Salsa there is no right way or wrong way.

I agree. In terms of depth and breadth, no one individual can surpass the knowledge contained with in SF. It would be surprising if anyone comes close to 50% of the depth and nuances of over all salsa dancing and salsa music related to it on here.

It would be useful take the entire database of salsa forums and feed into AI to train AI on SF based salsa specific knowledge embedding.

 

[eclo]

I am not surprised.

It will take longer to change those who are already conditioned- have built certain muscle memory as well as brain memory to the counts. It is like you are disturbing an established structure in their brains.

So not surprising that beginners find it easy. They are like a blank paper.

I think Joel Dominguez video of how to dance on2 in different ways matching the rhythm of conga or clave is more useful method/style to introduce/teach the pattern dancers who struggle without count.

There might be other better ones. I don’t view salsa videos.

That video is brilliant, it's exactly how it should be taught.

 

[anthonybm32]

So I got this new french book about salsa dance history saying (my translation):

"We say we dance on1 because our first step is at 1.
"We say we dance on2 because our first step is at 2."

What? I always start on2 with first step at 1, either backwards or sideways to the left (starting with CBL).
Does anybody start on2 at 2?
This reminds me of the futile discussion of "finding the 2 is more difficult": for on2 I find the 1, not the 2. Having become more experienced with on2 I do hear the 2 now, but still start moving my feet at 1.

Anyway, even if some people start on2 at 2, the very first step of a whole dance shouldn't have importance. on1 vs. on2 is about the break step, at which time you change direction of forward/backward. Does the above definition of this book make any sense I don't grasp?

The break step is on the 2 (direction change). You can do whatever you want on the 1. That's how I do it, anyway.