Bolero, Danzon, Bolero-Son, Danzon-Cha and all the confusion around it
- Thread starter Latinjazz
- Start date
DJ Yuca
Son Montuno
Well Mexico has its own style. Although I'm still not sure they're into danzón over there.
It's relatively popular with older people. It's not rare to see abuelitos dancing in the park.
One random example I got from youtube:
Back in the day there were also Mexican danzón composers. I think everyone in Mexico has heard this one:
DJ Yuca
Son Montuno
Broadway were Cubans so maybe it was just a Cuban thing in NY after the mid 60s. I probably have some on Cachao albums, SAR albums etc. Although it appears the example above is only for the beginning of the song.
Will give all of the above a listen at some point.
DJ Yuca
Son Montuno
Sounds like it crossed over to Mexico massively back in the day but now it's just for the older generations. That makes sense considering Cuban music was so popular in Mexico in the 50s, when danzón was still big on home turf.
DJ Yuca
Son Montuno
To be fair I was there during the pandemic. Plus I'm a recluse at the best of times.
DJ Yuca
Son Montuno
Cachao's great album Dos from 1977, recorded in NY for Salsoul, contains 1 danzón and a danzón cha. That's a lot of danzón for a 5 track album. I vaguely recall reading that the album wasn't very successful at the time, as it was too traditional Cuban for most salseros' tastes. But I may have imagined reading that.
As much as I know, they are. Mostly for dancing and older people, but following my information it’s still popular in some parts of Mexico - I couldn’t tell you which though. Just recall reading this in several different sources, unfortunately I can’t be more precise.
Richie Blondet
Son Montuno
Listen to any Salsa Romantica from the 1980s to the present and then listen to a Bolero-Son from the 1930s.
In fact I'm of the belief that the Bolero Son is what ALSO contributed to the emergence of both the Danzon-Mambo and Mambo itself.
1derpalm
Son Montuno
Interesting... I've never noticed a connection to Danzon-mbo. I'll have to dig deep. Perhaps you can give me tips on what components to listen for (not being facetious). I can see it with romantica, though.
Richie Blondet
Son Montuno
Bolero-Guajira.
Richie Blondet
Son Montuno
The connection between the two songs is the composer (uncredited), pianist & arranger Nick Jimenez. Who also co-wrote EL RATON with Cheo.
And it is a bolero segueing into a guajira. It's just not approached stylistically on the piano as a traditional guajira was. The way CAFE by Eddie Palmieri's "La Perfecta" interpreted it. As MUJER DIVINA goes into the response portion of the coro, Nick applies Son Montuno on the piano after the lyrics reach "...mi prieta.... mi cielo, te quiero, te adoro, divina mujer."
We also have to remember this is a NUYORICAN ensemble from "El Barrio" in New York. Not a Cuban Son ensemble like Trio Matamoros. The latter whose output of Son is very Caribbean, very mulato-like feel in its music. The Joe Cuba Sextet is influenced by Cuban Son, but they are also inspired by North American ("Black") pop music. If you listen to the vocals it's a very U S. pop-oriented approach. Like the harmonic stylings of doo wop. Both Matamoros and tge Joe Cuba Sextet are singing 2-part harmony in their music. But you can distinguish them with one being very Cuban and the other very much U.S. American, albeit in the same language of Spanish.
This is why categorization confuses many and muddy the nature of individual musical expression. Because we often define songs by limiting it to traditional structure.
In what way? There's no backbeat, or hand clapping.
Richie Blondet
Son Montuno
The Palmieri Bros. comes to mind. The Coco Records era for Palmieri has danzones. UNA ROSA ESPAÑOLA is a Danzon that segues into a son-montuno during the coro. Charlie recording ALMENDRA.
Richie Blondet
Son Montuno
It comes down to the era. Danzon was the second Cuban Popular Music to go wide across the Americas and Europe in the latter 19th century and early first half of the 20th. It was suplanted by (surprise-surprise) the bolero.
In New York city Danzon is not interpreted by ANY Salsa band. That doesn't mean Danzon never crossed over. Danzon was being played by non-Latinos in NYC. One prominent band leader of his era, Max Dolin, who was of European descent led his orchestra atop of the Amsterdam theater marquee rooftop on 42nd Street & Broadway in 1920, where his ensemble played Danzones.
Danzon definitely hit South and Central America. The recordings show us this. That's how someone like Acerina y su Danzonete winds up in Mexico and preserves the kettle drum tradition in the danzon format. Same with the pasodoble, which NO "Salsa" band interprets. But that style of music was still being played in 1960s & '70s NYC at a place like El Caborrojeño by folks like Charlie Palmieri and the Manolin Morel Campos orchestra. Today in NYC? Zilch.
Today, "live" SALSA is 100% represented by Guaracha, Son-montuno, and Mambo. With the rare slow guajira or son-montuno that people wind up dancing cha-cha-cha to.
Richie Blondet
Son Montuno
Lagrimas Negras is the most famous. But there were previous Bolero-Sones recorded.
This one from Matamoros is from 1928:
1derpalm
Son Montuno
In my neck of the woods(r about300 km) live Salsa means some salsa (lots of Colombian), a merengue, maybe a ajira (where the count 1,2 Chacha) and an ungodly amount of cumbia.
(re my claim of a boogaloo influence in "Mujer divina")
I feel a bit of an implied backbeat there.
But chances to a good part it's more general pattern matching (associating Joe Cuba's sound with boogaloo, and a bit of a vague soul influence)
Jeep answering to my 5-10 year Old posts to show everybody how little I knew!
Seriously: Thanks a lot! I wouldn’t write a sentence like that anymore, it’s nearly always wrong.
At least Trio Matamoros is involved, glad I was right about that in my view!
PS. I keep trying to send you a message but SF says I’m not allowed to. If you can change that I would have a question.