Bolero, Danzon, Bolero-Son, Danzon-Cha and all the confusion around it

TikiTaka said:
Found this video btw:
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Yes, it’s great and has been posted before! Unfortunately it has just a little confusion inside of Guajira. However, sometimes the differences between Chachacha and Guajira or between Guaracha and Son or Salsa are really hard to tell. At least for me. There id even supposedly a tumbadora pattern for Guaracha but I have lived cubans doing the normal marcha so often, it remains a mistery.
 
Latinjazz said:
Yes, it’s great and has been posted before! Unfortunately it has just a little confusion inside of Guajira. However, sometimes the differences between Chachacha and Guajira or between Guaracha and Son or Salsa are really hard to tell. At least for me. There id even supposedly a tumbadora pattern for Guaracha but I have lived cubans doing the normal marcha so often, it remains a mistery.
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I have often heard that Guaracha (cuban that is) is a lyrical style more than a musical style and they just apply it to other rhythms (usually Son, not necessarily Son Montuno).
 
Latinjazz said:
This thread is about Boleros and Danzones that you particularly like or for discussions about the matter in general.
Origin of the whole thing is "Lagrimas negras", oficially the first (or one of the first) Bolero-Son, but creating confusion among us.
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Here's a recording I like, by Trio Matamoros with María Teresa Veras. There's a very clear transition to son in the bass. Does anyone here know when it was recorded? The cowbell switching to that mambo bell pattern at 2:40 stands out a bit..


(Got here after struggling with Compay Segundo's recording
.)
 
I just ran across Orquesta Ritmo Oriental's recording of Lagrimas Negras. It's wild.

 
1derpalm said:
The opening of the verse just makes me want to run someone over.
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Because you like it so much?

It doesn't grab me on first listening but maybe if I heard to it a few times it would grow on me. (Probably not though.) The 70s and 80s were a very experimental time for son-based music made in Cuba (what little of it there was). It seems the only way they could make the music relevant was to mess with it a lot.
 
DJ Yuca said:
Because you like it so much?

It doesn't grab me on first listening but maybe if I heard to it a few times it would grow on me. (Probably not though.) The 70s and 80s were a very experimental time for son-based music made in Cuba (what little of it there was). It seems the only way they could make the music relevant was to mess with it a lot.
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No I effing hate it.
 
I like Barbarito Torres' recording of Lagrimas Negras, canta Conchita Torres

Mujer divina sounds like a bolero to me, with some similarity to that salsa-bolero sound of Que lío etc. There's a bit of a boogaloo hint there, could we call it a boleroo?
 
Going back to the title of the thread: mambo/salsa albums from NY, 50s to 70s often have at least one bolero, but rarely or never danzones. In fact I can't think of a NY salsa album containing a danzón. Maybe Cachao did some after moving to NY. (He certainly did loads when he was still in Cuba.)

Boleros are very popular in S America but I doubt even salseros know what a danzón is. Bolero (Cuban style) crossed over to all of Latin America but danzón didn't, in other words.
 
Also I learned recently that while bachata music is based in bolero, their box basic (which they also dance to "bolero campesino") comes from danzón
 
Gaviota said:
I heard danzón is popular in Mexico. Have they kept recording danzones, or do they dance to old Cuban music?
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I spent 5 months in Mexico and have met quite a few Mexicans in the UK. None of them ever mentioned danzón or played it at their parties. But it may be popular there to a certain extent.

Many Mexicans love to dance to old Pérez Prado tracks but ime faster rhythms than danzón.
 
Gaviota said:
Ray Barretto - Danzón de Paganini (1963)

Richie Ray - Danzón boogaloo (1966)

Joe Quijano - Perdóname (danzón-chá, 1977)
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That reminds me, I think Barreto did some others in his early career. (Early to mid 60s.) Notice the above Ricardo Ray and Quijano tracks are hybrids rather than danzón as such - maybe a pure danzón was of little interest to NY listeners from the mid 60s onwards.
 
DJ Yuca said:
Going back to the title of the thread: mambo/salsa albums from NY, 50s to 70s often have at least one bolero, but rarely or never danzones. In fact I can't think of a NY salsa album containing a danzón. Maybe Cachao did some after moving to NY. (He certainly did loads when he was still in Cuba.)

Boleros are very popular in S America but I doubt even salseros know what a danzón is. Bolero (Cuban style) crossed over to all of Latin America but danzón didn't, in other words.
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Other than mexico?
 
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