Best way to follow beginner leads?

M

mlemonl

Changui
Quick question to the leads that remember their beginner days & to followers who have experienced this:

I would consider myself an intermediate follower with lots to improve on and I don't mind dancing with beginner leads since I just started not too long ago myself. I rather enjoy it if all they knew was CBL, right turns and doing just shines and basics since it gives me time to cool down and practice listening to the music and rhythm.

The problem arises when they start to do complex patterns and combinations, and they go through the motions because they remember them, but the timing of the leads are completely off. Either too early, or too late, or too awkward and as a follower, what is the best way to do follow? Should I not turn when the leads are too late or should I try to reinforce the timing?

I do not want to backlead but I'm also not advanced enough to smooth out the mistakes. If I try to follow the best I can, I wind up chasing moves the entire dance, spinning to catch up to late turn leads, and sometimes, skipping and sliding back and forth down the slot. I do not want to discourage, but it is extremely exhaustive and not particularly enjoyable. What is the appropriate and possibly helpful etiquette?
 
First of all. Stay safe. Don't do anything that will lead to an injury.

Dance with more advanced leads as much as you can so that you can improve your dancing. Ask for dances if you have to.

For beginner leads there may no be much you can do but go with the flow. Sometimes there are opportunities to break off into shines yourself or to just slow things down to get back on time.
 
Etiquette for the follow is try to convey that you enjoy the dance. Keep eyecontact and smile during the whole dance.

Etiquette for leads is that they should ask the follow permission if they may practice combinations they don't know well yet. An advanced lead will only do a new difficult combination once if it goes wrong. But beginners will keep repeating in the hopes it will go well. Some even think they do it right.

Basic rules. Dancing on time. The follow should follow. But above that safety first.

So if you notice that your partner can't dance and lead on time (helping doesn't work) than the follow should dance on the leads wrong timing. Follow will have to disconnect from the music completely. And connect with the lead as much as possible. The fun in this is to practice connecting and following as well as fundamentals. Laugh about the leads mistakes that will occur.

Don't go into moves that became unsave because of poor technique or imbalance of the lead.

If you'll want to pause the turnpatterns keep your right hand on waist level instead of letting your partner move this hand above your head. This is the way to resist. Press your partners hand a little and combined with eye contact he will know that for now you won't turn.

Don't say anything during the dance unless really necessary for your safety. Comment with a warm smile after the dance: nice patterns and you still have to work on the timing.

Keep it at one dance with such a lead per night ofcourse. Don't dance your favorite songs with such leads.
 
Particular advise if your partner uses force to lead/rush you, you must speak up and ask not to be this rough.

Else use the resist with hands down at waist level technique to slow things down.

During the descarga you may want to release your partner and do shines.
 
Winston said:
During the descarga you may want to release your partner and do shines.
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It is important that followers do not do this with beginner leads, unless the leader is causing them physical pain in which case they should explain why they have let go. It is a breach of normal etiquette for a follower to disengage from the leader. Many leaders would be horrified if this happened.
 
Completely true.

Read my post as a whole. Release only if the lead is rough and as a last resort after you have asked him not to be rough.
 
If the lead is simply week/poorly executed/off time, I just do it to the best of my ability. If I know they're leading a CBL inside turn or whatever, that's what I'll do, even if it's off time. If I can't tell wtf they're even trying to lead, I'll give it my best guess and then smile and we'll both laugh at the awkwardness of the move, nine times out of 10. If the guy gets mad (which happens rarely) that I can't read his mind and spaghetti arms and says, "Actually, I was leading an xyz," I'll giggle, wink, and say, "Oh WERE you?"

However, if the move puts me off balance or can't be done safely, I'll stop it as quickly and safely as I can and communicate this with an "eek!" if it's REALLY dangerous. For example, if the floor is crowded, and he decides he's going to free spin me right into a couple.
 
John S2 said:
It is a breach of normal etiquette for a follower to disengage from the leader. Many leaders would be horrified if this happened.
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Lol! Isn't it the other way around? It's a breach of normal etiquette for the lead not to break for shines. Many follows would be horrifically annoyed if the lead never disengaged.
 
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Winston said:
So if you notice that your partner can't dance and lead on time (helping doesn't work) than the follow should dance on the leads wrong timing. Follow will have to disconnect from the music completely.
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A friend of mine who is an excellent and highly sought-after follow says that this is exactly what she does!

Actually, I think a lead should also do this if the follow is off-time, instead of trying to force her timing. It makes the dance more enjoyable for her, and the lead won't enjoy the dance either way, haha.
 
Nothing wrong with the follow disengaging to do shines. Leads should be educated that it's ok and they don't "own" the follows. In fact I'm going to bring this up in my next class :-)
 
Winston said:
So if you notice that your partner can't dance and lead on time (helping doesn't work) than the follow should dance on the leads wrong timing. Follow will have to disconnect from the music completely. And connect with the lead as much as possible. The fun in this is to practice connecting and following as well as fundamentals. Laugh about the leads mistakes that will occur.

Don't go into moves that became unsave because of poor technique or imbalance of the lead.

If you'll want to pause the turnpatterns keep your right hand on waist level instead of letting your partner move this hand above your head. This is the way to resist. Press your partners hand a little and combined with eye contact he will know that for now you won't turn.
Click to expand...

As others have also mentioned, I have not tried the keeping hands at waist to resist the turn patterns since I'm fully engaged in picking up lead signals but it does make a lot of sense, for instance, when he leads a normal crossbody lead, and suddenly decides it's a CBL w/ turn on the 6-7th count. I'd prefer to keep my footing.

The other aspect of being able to dance on the leads wrong timing is probably what I would consider advanced and great following too. But I am not to the point where I am able to execute that as much as I try to - keeping my own timing allows me fall into more advanced moves. Without the timing, I lose my footwork and am a little lost. I find that if I do try to match his off timing - I wind up looking at his feet a lot to see where they go. Any tips on that?

And lastly, I do enjoy the basic break or the shines break because it allows us both to recalibrate and reset especially when we get off time (some advanced leads do this for me when I lose my timing and can't quite catch up in closed position, it's great) I don't know if I'm daring enough to break off on my own, but I'll definitely take advantage of the free spins or if he accidentally let me go.

But all in all, thanks for the ideas.
 
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