Best ON1 leaders to watch

A

Ashwin Jain

Hey Guys,

I would like to know names of some of the best ON1 leaders who I can watch on youtube doing social dancing. Apart from not so famous personal favorites, I would be more interested in recognized celebrities.I have been watching Oliver Pineda for some time. Would be good to have a list of them i can learn from.

Thanks,
Ashwin
 
To be honest I wouldn’t worry too much about whether a leader dances on1 or on2 – as an example, if you mute the music when Super Mario dances you can’t really tell which beat he breaks on. He comes from a predominantly on1 scene, but all things being equal, I’m sure that he prefers to dance on2 socially.

Sure, there are recognised stylistic differences between LA and NY – but I don’t think these have much to do with which beat leaders take their break steps.

I personally prefer to watch NY style leaders – but I only dance on1, similarly I don’t really dance Cuban style, but get inspired by watching them too.
 
I don't have such a list but I bet you could find a few names by searching for edie the salsa freak and seeing who she partners.
 
Depends on your criteria for best (bearing in mind you said celebrities).

This list will get you started:
youtube.com/user/azzey2#grid/user/922418EAA372E44D
 
Ashwin Jain said:
i meant celebrities in the salsa world...like Edie and Oliver.

thanks for the list..
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Who? :razz: Yeah, that's what I meant but some people would disagree as to some leaders abilities (not talking about Oliver but someone with the initials ADS).

Check out the other "LA style salsa" and "LA style salsa 2" playlists also. Note: These are not organised lists, they just serve as dumping grounds for whatever-takes-my-fancy while i'm searching and then want to find again later.
 
Ok. Actually i m too afraid of learning the wrong thing (from a wrong guy). So i want someone where i can be assured that this is perfectly correct (because the person has a recognized authority). And ofcourse lots of such guys, so i know lots of correct variations. I would try to watch for all the subtle things in their technique...
 
Ashwin Jain said:
Ok. Actually i m too afraid of learning the wrong thing (from a wrong guy). So i want someone where i can be assured that this is perfectly correct (because the person has a recognized authority). And ofcourse lots of such guys, so i know lots of correct variations. I would try to watch for all the subtle things in their technique...
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Yeah, that's one of the things I used them for in the early days. Good to check for variations in ways of leading the same move and spot the best technique.

"Correct" is going to be a little hard to prove. Good or bad technique you can argue over but correct? Unless you worship the church of the holy (cow) Vasquez brothers.

It's funny whenever I'm doing some LA styling that is common place in LA, yet here (in the land of the Cubano and plain vanilla CBL dancer) I'm told it's my "personal style".
 
Ashwin Jain said:
Ok. Actually i m too afraid of learning the wrong thing (from a wrong guy). So i want someone where i can be assured that this is perfectly correct (because the person has a recognized authority).
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I think the way to protect from this is to learn from lots of people and use your own critical mind to discern what works and what doesn't. For many years I used to keep contrasting or even conflicting advice in the back of my mind and found that both sorts of advice come in useful in different scenarios.

There is no perfect dancer so there's no point in trying to find the person to copy 100% faithfully.

When you use a spread of sources, it becomes clear quite soon when you get some bad advice.
 
Paul Baarn from Holland has a lot of stuff on youtube, and he has a website. He dances on 1 and on 2. Really nice style and lovely to dance with.
 
sweavo said:
Ashwin Jain said:
Ok. Actually i m too afraid of learning the wrong thing (from a wrong guy). So i want someone where i can be assured that this is perfectly correct (because the person has a recognized authority). And ofcourse lots of such guys, so i know lots of correct variations. I would try to watch for all the subtle things in their technique...
Click to expand...

I think the way to protect from this is to learn from lots of people and use your own critical mind to discern what works and what doesn't. For many years I used to keep contrasting or even conflicting advice in the back of my mind and found that both sorts of advice come in useful in different scenarios.

There is no perfect dancer so there's no point in trying to find the person to copy 100% faithfully.

When you use a spread of sources, it becomes clear quite soon when you get some bad advice.
Click to expand...
I agree 100% :)
 
Ashwin Jain said:
Ok. Actually i m too afraid of learning the wrong thing (from a wrong guy). So i want someone where i can be assured that this is perfectly correct (because the person has a recognized authority). And ofcourse lots of such guys, so i know lots of correct variations. I would try to watch for all the subtle things in their technique...
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Problem is unless you have a good grounding in lead/follow it's hard to look at a video of someone dancing and work out how a variation is actually led. A lot of the subtleties are not visible unless you have a trained eye.

Find a 'good' technical teacher and take privates with him. Once you understand the technicalities you can then take stuff from any video of any guy and work out how to lead it correctly - even if the guy in the video has poor technique :D
 
sweavo said:
I think the way to protect from this is to learn from lots of people and use your own critical mind to discern what works and what doesn't. For many years I used to keep contrasting or even conflicting advice in the back of my mind and found that both sorts of advice come in useful in different scenarios.

There is no perfect dancer so there's no point in trying to find the person to copy 100% faithfully.

When you use a spread of sources, it becomes clear quite soon when you get some bad advice.
Click to expand...

I totally agree BUT... most people are not equipped with a 'critical mind' and have a hard time 'discerning what qworks and what doesn't and what is the root cause of the problem.

I was lucky in the fact that I'd had a lot of experience and training in how to analyse movement and body mechanics before starting to learn Salsa so I could analyse the info I was being given and work out if and why it worked.
Most people don't have that background.

Getting conflicting advice will often occure when you take advice from less then knowledgable sources BUT you may also get what SEEMS like contradicting advice from 2 or more knowledgable sources. They are actually giving you the same information just packaged slightly differently dependant upon their view points. Asking questions of them and having the desire to analyse the info will yield the real truth.

One thing I always say to my students is, if a teacher (myself included) or any dancer for that matter says 'You need to do X this way or that way' then
a) does that make sense in your current understanding
b) always be ready to ask WHY and HOW?
If their answer is 'because that's how I was taught' or 'because that's just how it works' then take that piece of information lightly.
If there isn't a satisfactory reason then it's probably not good information.

I used to agree with you that you need to learn from a lot of people but as I became more experienced and understood how much poor/misleading information is out there coupled with a great many poor teachers, I've totally changed my view - at least in the formative years. Find a good teacher by recommendation/searching/etc. and stick to them for at least a year. That way you'll not get conflicting info or waste your time with people who cannot teach, both of which will delay your progress. Once you've got good fundamentals under you belt you'll have enough tools/knowledge to be able to examine the information given to you by a teacher and discern whethjer it's of value.

Any questions :D
 
DaveFUK said:
I totally agree BUT... most people are not equipped with a 'critical mind' and have a hard time 'discerning what works and what doesn't and what is the root cause of the problem.
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I believe people are equipped with one it's just discouraged in most daily habits. That's why I think telling Ashwin about this approach is in itself doing some good. I wouldn't expect the "critical mind" to get to the root of a technical problem, I would expect the "critical mind" to say "hmm, I applied teacher A's solution and still broke my partner's fingers; whereas teacher B explained the hand position in some detail and it's so clear to me now"

Interesting point about background. I think both my juggling and tai chi fed into my dancing. Food for thought for me there, how to nurture this ability in others without any kind of vocabulary of balance and movement.

Getting conflicting advice will often occure when you take advice from less then knowledgable sources BUT you may also get what SEEMS like contradicting advice from 2 or more knowledgable sources. They are actually giving you the same information just packaged slightly differently dependant upon their view points. Asking questions of them and having the desire to analyse the info will yield the real truth.
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Be careful about "THE" truth though. What is THE correct prep? ET's way? Santo Rico's way? Frankie Martinez's way? The way it's done in ballroom mambo?

One thing I always say to my students is, if a teacher (myself included) or any dancer for that matter says 'You need to do X this way or that way' then
a) does that make sense in your current understanding
b) always be ready to ask WHY and HOW?
If their answer is 'because that's how I was taught' or 'because that's just how it works' then take that piece of information lightly.
If there isn't a satisfactory reason then it's probably not good information.
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very good advice!

I used to agree with you that you need to learn from a lot of people but as I became more experienced and understood how much poor/misleading information is out there coupled with a great many poor teachers, I've totally changed my view - at least in the formative years.
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More interesting thought for me thanks. My immediate reaction is that a rank beginner is not equipped to make this decision, doesn't know enough people to get good recommendations, etc. As I see it, a beginner tends to go somewhere with an open mind, enjoys the experience, and believes everything their teacher says, e.g. "I'm spanish therefore I'm the only authentic teacher around!" or "On 2 is a new invention that they had to invent a new type of music for". My urging to use a spread of teachers is meant to counteract this. I would expect someone doing this to fairly quickly realize what the various people do and do not have to offer.

Any questions :D
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Yes, I'm curious about where you got your experience in movement!
 
Dave, questioning your teacher/s stuff is gold. And that is where I am coming from. We dont have much of a salsa scene in my city. Perhaps teachers here can get me only this far. Instead of leaving, I want to take responsibility for my progress.
 
Ashwin Jain said:
Ok. Actually i m too afraid of learning the wrong thing (from a wrong guy). So i want someone where i can be assured that this is perfectly correct (because the person has a recognized authority). And ofcourse lots of such guys, so i know lots of correct variations. I would try to watch for all the subtle things in their technique...
Click to expand...

A lot of the LA style names have teaching DVDs. Have you thought of buying any? Some are better at teaching than others but it has some advantages:

- Getting tips and bits of philosophy of the dance.
- Having a wide range of moves broken down for you in their style, so you can practice with a partner.
- Being able to easily step frame-by-frame through parts of the video you are interested in and work out what they are actually doing vs what they say to do. Both WinDVD and Windows media have this feature.
- Knowing that he's not compensating for his partner at some point (which may happen during social dancing).
- Getting the lady's side of the move or pattern.

Much harder to do with YouTube and the video quality is usually not so good. In the past I used DVDs, now since I already know the details I can break down a poor quality YouTube clip easily even when someone is partially blocking the view.

You can also buy congress DVDs which have video of shows and some social dancing of pro's dancing together with great quality.

If you're worried about learning the wrong thing I would recommend something like Edie the Salsa Freak's Syllabus DVD's or her World Best Leads DVD's for a leader that you like (have already viewed his social dancing on YouTube).

This is of course in addition to taking regular lessons (and hopefully the odd private) from a good teacher and regular social dancing.

Try to see it as a multi-pronged approach. No one thing will get you there on its own and certainly not just learning more and more complicated patterns.

Now I'll get back to reading everyone else's advice... :)
 
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