Anyone here somewhat experienced with Cuban Rumba?

[SmallSteps3000]

Just want to compare experiences.

I've started my rumba classes and there really isn't a lot of talk about "refining" of technique in these classes as much as it is stressed in salsa.

I'm trying to master Yambu and am curious about what I should do to get halfway decent at it

 

[TSC]

For me the key to figuring out yambu was going super slowly/dancing to very slow music and learning to fill all the musical time with smooth continuous motion and the proper rumba cadence which can't really be explained verbally all that well. . . of course, you can do sharper accents, but in yambu the smooth & continuous movement, never appearing jerky or hurried, never dancing even a little bit ahead of the music, is the key (pay attention to smoothness in the muelle/"spring" or knee flex, in the movement of the torso and the arms, etc). This will also give you a good base for moving up to guaguanco later on.

Beyond that, though, rumba is far too complex to give technical advice in a web forum. . . watch a lot of rumba to get a feel for the cadence. . . then you need a teacher to show you detail by detail how each part of the body works and how all these movements work together. If there isn't much talk of technique in your class, ask your teacher to explain more one-on-one -- and if he/she can't, find another teacher.

 

[SmallSteps3000]

For me the key to figuring out yambu was going super slowly/dancing to very slow music and learning to fill all the musical time with smooth continuous motion and the proper rumba cadence which can't really be explained verbally all that well. . . of course, you can do sharper accents, but in yambu the smooth & continuous movement, never appearing jerky or hurried, never dancing even a little bit ahead of the music, is the key (pay attention to smoothness in the muelle/"spring" or knee flex, in the movement of the torso and the arms, etc). This will also give you a good base for moving up to guaguanco later on.

Beyond that, though, rumba is far too complex to give technical advice in a web forum. . . watch a lot of rumba to get a feel for the cadence. . . then you need a teacher to show you detail by detail how each part of the body works and how all these movements work together. If there isn't much talk of technique in your class, ask your teacher to explain more one-on-one -- and if he/she can't, find another teacher.

So right. I'm so used to staying on top of the beat that my teacher told me full on to just "STOP" in the middle of my private. lol.
Dancing behind the beat is quite the skill to learn.

But what I was really getting at was what should be done outside of class primarily to get decent at it. Just practicing at home in front of the mirror and copying Youtube videos? (which is currently what I do now and prefer doing) OR (something I'm not too fond of) spending money on private lessons?

My teacher told me that in Cuba the dance is learned primarily by being passed down from elder to child-- and that technique really isn't broken down because it isn't meant to be, for the express purpose of not creating "dancer clones" of the teacher. They want you to stay true to your own unique way of moving while still getting the basic movement.

I just wanted to see if this was anyone else's experience because if this is the case-- I really don't have to pay for lessons after a while. I could just start off getting a firm foundation from private lessons and then learning the rest on my own from DVD's and Youtube clips.

Thoughts, anyone?

 

[TSC]

The "watch and learn" method might work if you were to live in Cuba for a long time and go dance a lot of rumba, but unless you are _extremely_ talented, you will never become a very good rumba dancer by primarily watching YouTube videos and DVDs. It just won't happen.

Immersion since childhood is the best method; for foreigners, though, we generally have to learn the dance movement by movement. . . actually in Cuba too you'd be surprised by how many of the better rumberos had a teacher teach them on a very detailed movement-by-movement basis (though this may often not be in a formal class setting). Although many others of course just grew up with the tradition.

Basically, unless you can afford to live in Cuba for a long while and get involved in the rumba scene, lots and lots of classes with a great teacher is about the only way to go. . . that said, one private a week + some group classes + lots of practice can do wonders in the long term.

 

[TSC]

(oh and I lived in Cuba for a year with the express purpose of studying dance. . . I still needed great teachers to explain things to me. . . after a certain age, except for the really talented, "watch and copy" is very difficult when it comes to such complex movement)

 

[Papi]

Quite a lot of the good teachers have unfortunately left Cuba, which can be good for you if you can find a good *pedagogue* in your vicinity who can explain things to you in a structured manner (as opposed to most "teachers'" style of watch-me-and-repeat).

Yambu is definitely a great place to start your rumba, and as mentioned, there IS a basic technical side to rumba (such as the basic moyeo, movement in space, timing, torso and arm articulation), but I tend to strongly agree with the observation that rumba is in essence a street (ok, actually a "solar" ) dance, and sometimes too much technique and smoothness can lead to disingenuousness. Of course, do your groundwork, but always keep in mind what it MEANS and PROJECTS: in Yambu, it can be either an innocent play between an older man and a younger girl, or an elegant dance of an elderly couple. By showing your INTENTION through the dance, you will look much more authentic than through perfect technique...

And by all means, explore how Yambu can connect to Son - not only in its clave, but also in the same approach to elegance and sabor

Best,
Jan / Cubana Ljubljana

 

[SmallSteps3000]

(oh and I lived in Cuba for a year with the express purpose of studying dance. . . I still needed great teachers to explain things to me. . . after a certain age, except for the really talented, "watch and copy" is very difficult when it comes to such complex movement)

How long did it take you to get half-way decent at Rumba, if you don't mind me asking?

 

[SmallSteps3000]

Quite a lot of the good teachers have unfortunately left Cuba, which can be good for you if you can find a good *pedagogue* in your vicinity who can explain things to you in a structured manner (as opposed to most "teachers'" style of watch-me-and-repeat).

Yambu is definitely a great place to start your rumba, and as mentioned, there IS a basic technical side to rumba (such as the basic moyeo, movement in space, timing, torso and arm articulation), but I tend to strongly agree with the observation that rumba is in essence a street (ok, actually a "solar" ) dance, and sometimes too much technique and smoothness can lead to disingenuousness. Of course, do your groundwork, but always keep in mind what it MEANS and PROJECTS: in Yambu, it can be either an innocent play between an older man and a younger girl, or an elegant dance of an elderly couple. By showing your INTENTION through the dance, you will look much more authentic than through perfect technique...

And by all means, explore how Yambu can connect to Son - not only in its clave, but also in the same approach to elegance and sabor

Best,
Jan / Cubana Ljubljana

Wow... great post! Are you a rumba dancer?

I'm actually down here in Miami, but was confused about it. Compared to Salsa, Rumba actually seems have a very small amount of choreographed "moves" given to you by the teacher. The dance actually feels much "freer" in a way because the onus is not so much on a standardized syllabus of 1000 moves to copy from the teacher but rather giving you only a little to work on, so that you can make up the rest on your own. Other than the required arm movements/torso/ moyeo, the dance feels highly freestyled. Which -- if true-- is actually something I love!

 

[Papi]

Wow... great post! Are you a rumba dancer?

I'm actually down here in Miami, but was confused about it. Compared to Salsa, Rumba actually seems have a very small amount of choreographed "moves" given to you by the teacher. The dance actually feels much "freer" in a way because the onus is not so much on a standardized syllabus of 1000 moves to copy from the teacher but rather giving you only a little to work on, so that you can make up the rest on your own. Other than the required arm movements/torso/ moyeo, the dance feels highly freestyled. Which -- if true-- is actually something I love!

I do dance the core rumbas to a degree, but typically only in the context of Casino/Timba, although I do plan to organize social rumbas at some point You have correctly noticed the sparse nature of rumba "patterns" - in yambu and guaguanco, there are basically a few basic steps (floreo in place, basic sidestep, the traveling cachan step, and variations of these, such as the marco-abre marco-cierra, or marco-abre cachan sidesteps). Then, there are a few of typical stylings (hand patterns, turns) and some vacuna/botao patterns in guaguanco, and that's pretty much it! But the core of the dance is just pure improvisation, innovation, contact and emotion based on this minimal set of building blocks. I typically compare yambu and guaguanco to slow/fast blues (and columbia to jazz or progressive metal )

Rumba Columbia may be a bit richer in "known" patterns, but on the other hand, it doesn't look that way as it encourages, no, REQUIRES constant innovation and individuality as a solo competitive dance.

I believe it is also important to realize that rumbas are really street, people's dances - there is no RIGHT way to style it, everybody will do a significantly different variation, but preserve the basic feeling of the dance. Do not get stuck at observing famous current festival teachers and think their style is the one "authentic" thing - they have often stylized it waaaay too much. Rumba has a specific african aesthetic that does not always have to be "beautiful" in western eyes, which some teachers are unfortunately trying to achieve, frustrating students and taking the fun out of it.

Best,
Jan / Cubana Ljubljana

 

[Yiannis]

To get better at rumba you have to know your body, and how to execute each specific movement. Some moves come from your core, amd most from your shoulder muscles! Find a good instructor someone like Alberto Valdes and have some private lessons and you'll be rocking it in no time!

 

[SmallSteps3000]

I do dance the core rumbas to a degree, but typically only in the context of Casino/Timba, although I do plan to organize social rumbas at some point You have correctly noticed the sparse nature of rumba "patterns" - in yambu and guaguanco, there are basically a few basic steps (floreo in place, basic sidestep, the traveling cachan step, and variations of these, such as the marco-abre marco-cierra, or marco-abre cachan sidesteps). Then, there are a few of typical stylings (hand patterns, turns) and some vacuna/botao patterns in guaguanco, and that's pretty much it! But the core of the dance is just pure improvisation, innovation, contact and emotion based on this minimal set of building blocks. I typically compare yambu and guaguanco to slow/fast blues (and columbia to jazz or progressive metal )

Rumba Columbia may be a bit richer in "known" patterns, but on the other hand, it doesn't look that way as it encourages, no, REQUIRES constant innovation and individuality as a solo competitive dance.

I believe it is also important to realize that rumbas are really street, people's dances - there is no RIGHT way to style it, everybody will do a significantly different variation, but preserve the basic feeling of the dance. Do not get stuck at observing famous current festival teachers and think their style is the one "authentic" thing - they have often stylized it waaaay too much. Rumba has a specific african aesthetic that does not always have to be "beautiful" in western eyes, which some teachers are unfortunately trying to achieve, frustrating students and taking the fun out of it.

Best,
Jan / Cubana Ljubljana

Excellent post! I never knew the names of some of these moves, so I'll have to write these down!

I myself am really in love with Yambu. I love the feeling of the non-rushedness (is that even a word?) and smoothness of it!

Even though you have pretty much confirmed my own observations/thoughts on the rumbas basically being pure improvisation, do you think it would be looked down up on if I were to interlace some salsa shines in with my yambu? Like maybe a Suzy-Q here or there? I know that Yambu, thanks to its rather slow nature-- unlike Columbia-- must be the most difficult Rumba to integrate salsa shines/footwork into it, but in my mind I think I could pull it off and make it look absolutely lovely!
Even though I understand that there is no such thing as authenticity in a street dance, I don't wont to offend anyone with my dancing either?

I am just realizing EXTREMELY late in the middle of my Salsa journey (5 LONG YEARS!!) that I was meant to be a rumbero, not a salsero. Even early on in my dance journey I never did like holding hands and turn patterns. It's romantic for a while but it can really get boring and old! I wish I would have found Rumba much earlier! I would have been half-way decent by now!

Is it usual in Cuba that Cubans usually specialize in either Rumba or Casino or both?

 

[SmallSteps3000]

To get better at rumba you have to know your body, and how to execute each specific movement. Some moves come from your core, amd most from your shoulder muscles! Find a good instructor someone like Alberto Valdes and have some private lessons and you'll be rocking it in no time!

Yes! Alberto Valdes is my favorite dancer! His Yambu was what got me hooked! I've got his DVD and look at it religiously!

Are you a rumba dancer?

What was the journey like for you?

I am strongly thinking of leaving salsa behind and just becoming a Yambu rumbero! Suits my tastes much better. Turn patterns are such a nuisance/pain) for me (of which Rumba has little of!)... the body movement and improvisational shines are really the major reason why I wanted to dance Salsa in the first place.

I'd hate to leave Salsa behind after such a huge time and monetary investment (especially from my shines lessons/privates), but I figure maximizing the return on investment by just concentrating on just one thing (Rumba) would get me much further and happier in general!

idk what do you think?

 

[Sabrosura]

always keep in mind what it MEANS and PROJECTS: in Yambu, it can be either an innocent play between an older man and a younger girl

Lol @ "innocent", having seen a lot of Yambu dancing in Cuba I can tell you that Yambu is anything but "innocent"! Just because the old man can't anymore, doesn't mean he doesn't want to
This one for instance nearly gets a heart attack from all the wanting

 

[Yiannis]

Yes! Alberto Valdes is my favorite dancer! His Yambu was what got me hooked! I've got his DVD and look at it religiously!

Are you a rumba dancer?

What was the journey like for you?

I am strongly thinking of leaving salsa behind and just becoming a Yambu rumbero! Suits my tastes much better. Turn patterns are such a nuisance/pain) for me (of which Rumba has little of!)... the body movement and improvisational shines are really the major reason why I wanted to dance Salsa in the first place.

I'd hate to leave Salsa behind after such a huge time and monetary investment (especially from my shines lessons/privates), but I figure maximizing the return on investment by just concentrating on just one thing (Rumba) would get me much further and happier in general!

idk what do you think?

Hi, from a young age I was just dancing freestyle, just listening to the music and danced to it, after a couple of years i created some of my own moves in solo dancing, I used to love latin, hip hop, rnb, funky house and uk garage music! Later I started taking lessons in Salsa LA, after a couple of years I started learning Pachanga and as I mentioned I used to go for private lessons to Alberto Valdes for afro rumba. If I was in your shoes, I wouldn't aim to give up salsa, but I would recommend giving more emphasis in yambu and mastering it, because that will totally change your body movement and your technique, making you an overall better dancer no matter what kind of music you are listening to or enjoy dancing to! I have been doing this of quite some time now, and I am about to open a dance school along with my dance parther, focusing on la on1 and incorporating pachanga, afo cuban rumba, popping, hip hop, etc and offcourse acrobatics! The way I like to dance salsa is to feel the music as a lead being able to tranfer what i hear to my follow, and a good follow must be able to smooth everything out and make it look amazing! To cut a long story short, focus on learning yambu, but don't give up salsa as a whole, because you can still incorporate yambu in salsa! I hope this helps

 

[Papi]

Lol @ "innocent", having seen a lot of Yambu dancing in Cuba I can tell you that Yambu is anything but "innocent"! Just because the old man can't anymore, doesn't mean he doesn't want to
This one for instance nearly gets a heart attack from all the wanting

Ok, I correct myself, innocent compared to the guaguanco The old man will sometimes "inadvertently" touch or grab the young lady as he falters or falls, but it is still innocent compared to the guaguanco hunt

Best,
Jan

 

[Papi]

Excellent post! I never knew the names of some of these moves, so I'll have to write these down!

I myself am really in love with Yambu. I love the feeling of the non-rushedness (is that even a word?) and smoothness of it!

Even though you have pretty much confirmed my own observations/thoughts on the rumbas basically being pure improvisation, do you think it would be looked down up on if I were to interlace some salsa shines in with my yambu? Like maybe a Suzy-Q here or there? I know that Yambu, thanks to its rather slow nature-- unlike Columbia-- must be the most difficult Rumba to integrate salsa shines/footwork into it, but in my mind I think I could pull it off and make it look absolutely lovely!
Even though I understand that there is no such thing as authenticity in a street dance, I don't wont to offend anyone with my dancing either?

I am just realizing EXTREMELY late in the middle of my Salsa journey (5 LONG YEARS!!) that I was meant to be a rumbero, not a salsero. Even early on in my dance journey I never did like holding hands and turn patterns. It's romantic for a while but it can really get boring and old! I wish I would have found Rumba much earlier! I would have been half-way decent by now!

Is it usual in Cuba that Cubans usually specialize in either Rumba or Casino or both?

Quite a bit of Cuban rumberos have the same fondness and a special place in their heart for Yambu, as it has that true "suave sabor" - so you seem to understand the feeling of the dance completely

As for specialization in Cuba, it really depends on who the person is. A member of a traditional rumba/afro music/dance group - they will typically only do rumba and afro. A casual social dancer today - they will do reggaeton, some Casino, and very rarely any rumba or afro, except for minimal styling. A trained dance teacher - they will know everything, but may not use all of it on the dance floor. Outside Cuba, you will see many more people doing a mix of everything especially on songs that have a strong rumba or afro message (rhythm, lyrics, etc.).

I have an extremely liberal stance to what you can use on the dancefloor (whatever feels good to YOU at the moment), but of course there will be purists of all sorts who will tell you otherwise. Unless you live in a very prejudiced dance community, I would not worry about anything - just be aware that you are creating something individual (kudos to you, especially if it inspires other people as well), and are departing from "authenticity" whatever that is And the most important thing - ensure that you partner enjoys it as well! (otherwise you will be stuck doing Columbia at home )

Best,
Jan

 

[SmallSteps3000]

Quite a bit of Cuban rumberos have the same fondness and a special place in their heart for Yambu, as it has that true "suave sabor" - so you seem to understand the feeling of the dance completely

As for specialization in Cuba, it really depends on who the person is. A member of a traditional rumba/afro music/dance group - they will typically only do rumba and afro. A casual social dancer today - they will do reggaeton, some Casino, and very rarely any rumba or afro, except for minimal styling. A trained dance teacher - they will know everything, but may not use all of it on the dance floor. Outside Cuba, you will see many more people doing a mix of everything especially on songs that have a strong rumba or afro message (rhythm, lyrics, etc.).

Wow! Thanks for your message! So, if it's pretty rare that anyone outside of a traditional rumba group would specialize in rumba, is it even rarer to find someone who specializes in just Yambu alone?

 

[TSC]

Folklore specialists might specialize in folklore (rumba & other Afro-Cuban dances) but it is pretty rare to find someone who would dance _just_ Afro-Cuban dances -- in fact, I can't think of anyone I know. Even the dancers of the Conjunto Folklorico, the country's premiere folkloric group, dance casino & other popular dances in their shows (and will dance reggaeton in their time off). Although, to be sure, they're better at traditional dances than street-style dancing.

I would never advise focusing on just one dance to the exclusion of all else. Sure, put more emphasis on your favorite, but other dances have a lot to teach you about coordination, body movement, musicality etc. Dancing just one thing limits your development.

 

[TSC]

How long did it take you to get half-way decent at Rumba, if you don't mind me asking?

It depends on what you mean by "half-way decent". I've been at it for 3-4 years, more or less. . . including one year of intensive study in Cuba. Don't have any good videos of guaguanco or yambu up, but here's one of columbia

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1308231249203677

(my second time ever dancing columbia in public, at the home base of the conjunto folklorico in Havana)

There's lots and lots and lots more for me to learn. I'll say that at this time I'm finally able to start improvising & "feeling the music" when I dance. . .

 

[Papi]

Wow! Thanks for your message! So, if it's pretty rare that anyone outside of a traditional rumba group would specialize in rumba, is it even rarer to find someone who specializes in just Yambu alone?

I know some dancers in Matanzas that only do afrocuban, but they are not professionally trained... And yes, I cannot think of any Yambu specialist.

Best,
Jan / Cubana Ljubljana