Adjusting as a lead and musicality
- Thread starter opm1s6
- Start date
MAMBO_CEC
Son Montuno
First off Terry actually dances in this clip. Secondly considering she missed a lot of cues at the beginning of the dance, it turned out to be a fun dance, at least from my perspective. They both had fun with the miscues. Should he have an adjusted? Yes, but Terry doesn’t really adjust, I am actually surprised it was posted. I actually quite liked the follow, she has some skills and semblance of that elusive ‘sabor’ and a sense of humor. This should be a cautionary tale to all those followers wanting to dance with Terry, you have to bring your A game.
desconocida
Son
I mean... "should adjust" is really a difficult take to argue... Who gets to decide? Terry probably wouldn't be Terry if he did - by now every follow should know that Terry doesn't do any adjusting. Not sure he'd do that for his own grandma, actually, or rather try to put her through that rough spinning cycle on 1200 RPM. At least he appeared friendly while letting the poor girl starve. Also, the follower is absolutely lovely, I am sure she's a much better follow, in general, than this video makes it appear - probably just not used to this type of leading. Should he adjust? No, it's up to him. Would I ever ask him to dance, regardless of whether or not I possess the skills to follow his turnpatterns? That would be a hard pass 
1derpalm
Son Montuno
It is good to know as a lead that when/if I get good I do not need to adjust to my follow. Thank God.I mean... "should adjust" is really a difficult take to argue... Who gets to decide? Terry probably wouldn't be Terry if he did - by now every follow should know that Terry doesn't do any adjusting. Not sure he'd do that for his own grandma, actually, or rather try to put her through that rough spinning cycle on 1200 RPM. At least he appeared friendly while letting the poor girl starve. Also, the follower is absolutely lovely, I am sure she's a much better follow, in general, than this video makes it appear - probably just not used to this type of leading. Should he adjust? No, it's up to him. Would I ever ask him to dance, regardless of whether or not I possess the skills to follow his turnpatterns? That would be a hard pass
opm1s6
Son
And here I thought being advanced was curating a comfortable experience. Instead, it's all for the gram.
She's actually quite good it seems, but he's too fast and can't stop himself. After she had several problems he still tries (0:46) a fake right turn but stopping her and counter-turn opposite direction: not a good strategy when your follower was already struggling a lot. At 1:42 it looks like doing a haircomb but he leads into a real turn instead. We don't know the circumstances of the dance, maybe he was too tired to stop his muscle memory. On the other hand I wouldn't be surprised if he makes a future instagram reel preaching "Leaders, you always have to adjust to your follower!".
Part of the problem might be the camera - when getting filmed you don't want to do single right turn followed by CBL followed by single right turn, especially when you are a star.
Part of the problem might be the camera - when getting filmed you don't want to do single right turn followed by CBL followed by single right turn, especially when you are a star.
desconocida
Son
Again, I am not saying this is what my personal ideal dance partner looks like - I had plenty of opportunities to dance with him in events that weren't crowded at all and he was just standing around, but I wouldn't ask him because of this attitude. But who am I to say how anyone SHOULD dance? I don't want any restrictions being put on my dancing. It is a well-known fact that Terry just does his thing. I had this talk precisely about him with two professional (and very, very good) follows who essentially confirmed: it is challenging even for them. He does not give AF, he does his thing, it is still fun for them because it challenges them. You wouldn't be able to tell from the videos that they faced any type of difficulty, clearly, they're pros, but they did confirm after the dance that it was not easy. So, clearly, it will be a very, very hard dance to pull off for any regular, non-pro follower, and yet Terry is among those very few artists for whom followers will line up (worst I've ever seen was in Berlin). Go figure!
My god, those are some of the ugliest patterns I've ever seen.
They don't look much better when the follower is executing them perfectly.
They don't look much better when the follower is executing them perfectly.
Wow that was painful to watch.
I don't generally have opinions about what others 'should' or 'shouldn't' do, but if I were in that follower's dance shoes I would have said a very early 'Thank you' at about 0:13 and noped out of there. Nobody needs that nonsense ruining a good time.
I don't generally have opinions about what others 'should' or 'shouldn't' do, but if I were in that follower's dance shoes I would have said a very early 'Thank you' at about 0:13 and noped out of there. Nobody needs that nonsense ruining a good time.
Looking at her movements, in my book she is indeed a fairly good follower.
I saw the video when it was first posted on the thread. Despite being primed, I remember seeing a few miscues but not as severe as most of the replies make it out to be.
I can see how a follower could have a problem with some of the stuff he was leading.
May be he didn’t perceive her as struggling. Who knows, only he can tell.
Haha. He should
Only two? Either I was fly on the wall or a participant in that terry conversation with probably more than a dozen really good followers over the years. They didn’t think it was fun though the word most commonly used was like a roller coaster ride. Not everyone thinks roller coasters are fun.
Is challenging really a right word. As an intermediate dancer I can make it challenging for pro follower simply by confused signaling or mistiming
Yes in literal sense he can be challenging because of what he does, but it isn’t challenging because a follower doesn’t have skills. All that lead has to do to challenge a follower is do something counter intuitive. Do it once can be fun for both. Doing it mutiple times is well…kind of dance equivalent of harassment There are thousands simple ways I can think to challenge a follower. Terry has more complex ways he throws in most of the time.There are certain types of followers that I have seen Terry adjust to. If they have their own unique style which is different than what could be considered mainstream in following, I seen him adjusting. Magna and Martina are two names that come to my mind. I don’t think I seen him dance with Katja. Not have I seen him dance with some of the top NYC followers who had strong (dance) personality like say Amanda Estillo.
But most of the time he does his own thing even though he occasionally demonstrates he can totally adjust to different styles. Which isn’t surprising with his talent and level.
I am still stuck at why what he is doing would be any easier for a pro follower.
To me good social dancing is like a good conversation. What Terry is doing is shouting out loud and not listening. Or drowning out the other person. Hence in my books whether a follower is pro or good is moot.
Last edited:
My problem with that kind of leading always has been the same as women making excuses for a wife beater. Not only Terry, there are videos of other current stars mauling and manhandling followers with obnoxious partnerwork.
He did that???
desconocida
Son
"Just" two because those were the only two actual pro followers I know well and knew they're going to give me an honest answer as to why they still like (or do not like) dancing with Terry. Both could be classified as "top-level" NYC dancers (one isn't in NYC any more but has been for a long time). I have no idea who Martina or Katja are, which does not support the hypothesis that they are well-known top-level pros though, and Magna for me hasn't been interesting for at least 15 years by now. So, obviously, I wanted to know what the appeal is for those girls who dance each weekend all over the world and have danced with pretty much every pro dancer by now and yet they get some type of thrill out of dancing with Terry.Only two? Either I was fly on the wall or a participant in that terry conversation with probably more than a dozen really good followers over the years. They didn’t think it was fun though the word most commonly used was like a roller coaster ride. Not everyone thinks roller coasters are fun.
Is challenging really a right word. As an intermediate dancer I can make it challenging for pro follower simply by confused signaling or mistiming
There are certain types of followers that I have seen Terry adjust to. If they have their own unique style which is different than what could be considered mainstream in following, I seen him adjusting. Magna and Martina are two names that come to my mind. I don’t think I seen him dance with Katja. Not have I seen him dance with some of the top NYC followers who had strong (dance) personality like say Amanda Estillo.
But most of the time he does his own thing even though he occasionally demonstrates he can totally adjust to different styles. Which isn’t surprising with his talent and level.
I am still stuck at why what he is doing would be any easier for a pro follower.
To me good social dancing is like a good conversation. What Terry is doing is shouting out loud and not listening. Or drowning out the other person. Hence in my books whether a follower is pro or good is moot.
The reason why it would be easier for a pro is because they bring a whole other level of athleticism and practice to the game which is highly beneficial for following a lot of consecutive spins with many misdirections. And "challenging" (or rather "it challenges me") is exactly the wording they used, independently of each other. And yes, I've discussed that topic with plenty of other followers before but I think it's not of interest to the discussion here to summarize those conversations.
Wait.. Do you mean to say that Terry adjusts to Magna and Martina?
Magna doesn't need to be adjusted to. She is every bit Terry's equal.
Martina has her own style and in that famous video that she's in, SHE'S the one who's adjusting to Terry rather than the other way around.
Terry doesn't adjust to nobody.
Katja and Terry don't match at all. Judging by who Katja enjoys dancing with (new agey dancers), Terry is the complete opposite of what she's looking for in a dance partner.
As for famous followers Terry is seen dancing with often in recent years, Denisse Cambria comes to mind. But to have to be on that level in order to enjoy a dance with someone is just too much to ask for.
opm1s6
Son
And another
Ouch, that one is even more painful. Zero connection to partner, he isn't even looking at her. Just reeling off pretzels while thinking about his grocery list, or having a side conversation with someone off camera.
Super rude.
He is super sweated and needs a rest, why does she insist on dancing with someone who's way above her league? Yes, because he's a star and that gives her adrenaline, so out of selfish reasons. So the selfish problem is on both sides. He is part of a circus and must play his role as a circus horse he certainly sometimes dislikes.
Steve Starmambo wouldn't have published this, but amateur videographers will publish anything to get clicks when they had the chance to film a star.