A thought about timing..

Chris_Yannick

Chris_Yannick

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Staff member
Interesting observation about timing...

Since I've been dancing On2 (more than 10 years now), I had always been either slightly ahead or right on the beat (according to video evidence of course since in my head my timing is always perfect :p). I was also told that I was rushing my On2 a bit when I submitted a video of myself here on the forums 7 years ago.

A few years ago, I decided with a lot of conscious effort, that I would try to be more "New York-ish" and dance slightly behind the beat, which completely changed when and how I initiated my weight shift. Now I've noticed that I'm definitely slightly behind the beat (again, according to video evidence).

Yet I feel exactly the same when I dance. Where I do feel is different, however, is how I interpret the music. I react to each instrument differently and that has an effect on my musicality.

But the timing shift from being on the beat to slightly behind it was an entirely conscious decision. I have no idea if this is a noticeable difference for my partner.
 
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Chris_Yannick said:
I have no idea if this is a noticeable difference for my partner.
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My personal experience (take the stats with a grain of salt), 90% of dancers are generously forgiving of their partner‘s timing or just go with it. That includes pros and celebrities to be clear. 5% will non-verbally make it clear that the timing is not in synch. 3% will verbally say something. Remaining 1% to 2% are timing nazis and half of them are wrong about which beat they are actually stepping on or ending up on.

P.S. - I can’t count but I can feel it when my partner dances behind the beat.
 
Offbeat said:
My personal experience (take the stats with a grain of salt), 90% of dancers are generously forgiving of their partner‘s timing or just go with it.
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Indeed. I consider counting by numbers beneath me. Anyone who questions timing based on numbers needs to get their heads examined. I'm saying that without trying to sound like a snob lol.

But it's true. I am not a stickler for counting - meaning I don't care what numbers people use for their dancing. I think of counting/timing as two different things.

Offbeat said:
P.S. - I can’t count but I can feel it when my partner dances behind the beat.
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That is interesting. I don't feel it myself if I'm the one who's dancing behind the beat. I consider it my normal state of dancing.
 
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I just dance in the Koong koong pop on 2. Not everyone loves it lol. I have seen quite a few videos of ET counting 123 567 (his on 2 timing) but he is landing before 1 and 5. Even in his instructional video he dances 234 567 (as does Mambo D).
But I am not the best on2 dancer and I'm also quite staccato.
All I know is that I hate when follows passive aggressively count "2" quietly to themselves. I dont need it lol. It's usually the ones still learning or holding fast to the 123 567 timing of on 2,which I rarely do unless it has a strong 1. And if it does I might as well dance on 1 anyways.
But may I ask what the Behind the beat thing is? I'm eager to add variation to my dancing.
 
1derpalm said:
But may I ask what the Behind the beat thing is? I'm eager to add variation to my dancing.
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Here is an article explaining it. Just ignore the ludicrous advanced dancer secret claim lol.


I've been thinking about this concept recently as I was trying to dub music over a video of myself dancing and was having trouble synch-ing it because I wanted to synch my foot touching the ground to exactly match the beat, but the video would appear rushed if I did that. By synch-ing the video so that my foot touched the ground slightly after the beat, it made my dancing appear more with the music.
 
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Another related question about timing... when you dance, do you clap or snap your fingers? It may only happen a few times during a dance, but sometimes I feel people do it because they think it's somehow cool? What do you think of people who do this?

I started snapping my fingers when doing shines as a way to mark my timing. Though I couldn't see myself clapping in a song. Maybe if I was really into it, but then if I could, I would probably rather sing it instead.
 
Chris_Yannick said:
Another related question about timing... when you dance, do you clap or snap your fingers? It may only happen a few times during a dance, but sometimes I feel people do it because they think it's somehow cool? What do you think of people who do this?

I started snapping my fingers when doing shines as a way to mark my timing. Though I couldn't see myself clapping in a song. Maybe if I was really into it, but then if I could, I would probably rather sing it instead.
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When I was a child and attended my first dj party, I went on YouTube to learn how to dance because I was panicking.
The video made me promise it that I will never clap, snap or point because it claims that its a 'dorky' thing to do. That promise is still ingrained in my head, but I never really understood why I shouldn't clap and point...
What else have I been indoctrinated into?
 
Mr Setenta said:
When I was a child and attended my first dj party, I went on YouTube to learn how to dance because I was panicking.
The video made me promise it that I will never clap, snap or point because it claims that its a 'dorky' thing to do. That promise is still ingrained in my head, but I never really understood why I shouldn't clap and point...
What else have I been indoctrinated into?
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There are times when pointing, clapping, snapping or even singing looks forced or rehearsed, but who knows whether that was the intent or not. If it helps with your self-expression, then I say go for it. Of course, belting out the words of a song while dancing is not something I'd normally condone but it's for the same reason I don't condone talking during dancing as it's distracting for your partner. But I see no problem with any of these things in general as long as it's not overly distracting.
 
I clap. It's mostly inappropriate and appropriate at the same time for different reasons.

In general I think playing music and dancing is similar thing at the core, with different expressions. Playing drums and dancing could be closer than playing drums and playing violin.
 
Smejmoon said:
In general I think playing music and dancing is similar thing at the core, with different expressions. Playing drums and dancing could be closer than playing drums and playing violin.
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I've always felt dancing and playing an instrument to be very different activities. Mostly because I never associated playing an instrument with dancing. I grew up playing classical music so dancing was not even on my radar (and my teachers would never have allowed it anyway). Same thing happened with Jazz. Yet I always knew basic movement to be a core aspect of playing an instrument, like swaying back and forth while playing the piano. Salsa, however, changed my thinking and that's when I started to associate musicianship with dancing.
 
Chris_Yannick said:
I've always felt dancing and playing an instrument to be very different activities. Mostly because I never associated playing an instrument with dancing. I grew up playing classical music so dancing was not even on my radar (and my teachers would never have allowed it anyway). Same thing happened with Jazz. Yet I always knew basic movement to be a core aspect of playing an instrument, like swaying back and forth while playing the piano. Salsa, however, changed my thinking and that's when I started to associate musicianship with dancing.
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I could argue both sides; dance is expression of body and it makes sense when someone sees or feels it (could be yourself), doesn't need to be heard. Music is expression that makes sense when it's heard. So there can be valid body expressions in silence that one would feel as dance. And there could be computer sythesized music that we could listen by laying still in the dark and it would feel like music. Separate worlds.

But then again, what is a clap - expression of body movement or expression of sound? It's both.

So rhythmical live dance music with acoustic instruments that you need to engage with your body to evoke sound. For me it's merging domain of movement and domain of sound, and I like it like that.
 
I guess it's different for everyone. Dancing mainly is feeling for me, less about expressing. With instruments i never became proficient enough just to go beyond practising and freestylying things that sounded good to me.
 
TikiTaka said:
Dancing mainly is feeling for me, less about expressing.
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I am in the same camp.

By dancing you are expressing the feeling. Some people put more emphasis on expression and some on the feeling. I see two camps. One, those for whom the feelings are not validated unless they express them. They have a need to express their feelings. In the second categories are those are who don’t feel compel to express their feelings, and they rather enjoy the sense of the feeling than its expression. It is sort of like extrovert and introvert. I said like because it parallels the concept. There isn’t a correlation I think because those who are expressing types and feeling types in dancing, don’t neatly map to extrovert/introvert.
 
TikiTaka said:
I guess it's different for everyone. Dancing mainly is feeling for me, less about expressing. With instruments i never became proficient enough just to go beyond practising and freestylying things that sounded good to me.
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Offbeat said:
Some people put more emphasis on expression and some on the feeling.
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Just to clarify something:

By expression, do you mean clapping/snapping/etc?
By feeling, do you mean things that are not seen, like your connection?

In any case, I can't really tell the difference here. If I feel something or if the music moves me in some way, I'm going to express it however I can. If I have to snap the rhythm, I will do that. But i'll probably choose some other way to express myself more often. But isn't all of this just musicality? Since what is the difference between clapping and marking the rhythm with your feet, arms or shoulders? These are all what I would consider, a form of musical expression through feeling.

I know some 'feeling' dancers who don't do any of the clapping/snapping stuff because they don't feel the rhythm, but they mouth the lyrics quietly to themselves (which is adorable btw) or close their eyes when they dance. It's their way of expressing themselves.
 
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Chris_Yannick said:
Just to clarify something:

By expression, do you mean clapping/snapping/etc?
By feeling, do you mean things that are not seen, like your connection?

In any case, I can't really tell the difference here. If I feel something or if the music moves me in some way, I'm going to express it however I can. If I have to snap the rhythm, I will do that. But i'll probably choose some other way to express myself more often. But isn't all of this just musicality? Since what is the difference between clapping and marking the rhythm with your feet, arms or shoulders? These are all what I would consider, a form of musical expression through feeling.

I know some 'feeling' dancers who don't do any of the clapping/snapping stuff because they don't feel the rhythm, but they mouth the lyrics quietly to themselves (which is adorable btw) or close their eyes when they dance. It's their way of expressing themselves.
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I clap because i feel like it lol
 
Chris_Yannick said:
Sure, we all do something that would be considered expressive when we dance. I'm just not sure the difference between expression and feeling.
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Yeah i started to realize it after reading your response. I just never related to the concept of "expressing yourself" but i guess it's more or less the same.
 
Chris_Yannick said:
Just to clarify something:

By expression, do you mean clapping/snapping/etc?
By feeling, do you mean things that are not seen, like your connection?
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No. By expression I meant outward display of feeling of joy, sad, somber, or anywhere emotion including intensity. The extreme example is like that person who keeps looking in your eyes in unnerving way. Feeling in this context want about your connection. It is about your emotional state of being due and while being in the dance.

There are people who feel need to express their emotional state and there are people who want to channel the emotional state without making a significant display of it.
 
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