A SOUTH BRONX LATIN MUSIC TALE

I for one would love to see more Pachanga being thrown in the mix of social dancing.

Unfortunately, the majority of the On1/On2 instructors aren't familiar with the actual dance itself. The Pachanga was the dance for Charanga music (at least in the USA), but most folks will apply their "salsa" repertoire.

Pachanga was one of the hippest dances of all time and I agree that there should be more of it today...
 
Unfortunately, the majority of the On1/On2 instructors aren't familiar with the actual dance itself. The Pachanga was the dance for Charanga music (at least in the USA), but most folks will apply their "salsa" repertoire.

Pachanga was one of the hippest dances of all time and I agree that there should be more of it today...

There are 2 inherent problems with that..

1. Its step variety is really limited compared to all the other styles ( we) had close to a yr teaching this, day in and day out ,average, as I re-call of 2hrs a day .

2. It can be very tiring, particularly ( again ) for those not in " shape " .It does, however, lend its-self to solo work, which may be used as standard shines .

This should get a giggle..Ive told this before.

I played one at a gig I did.. One couple got up, and started to dance R and R !!:eek:
 


Great article.. one correction.. The mambo did NOT get recognised/danced in Europe, in the 50s or 60s, and not really till salsa came in, did anything look remotely " latin ". If dances dont make the Comp.circuit, in the UK, they generally take a back seat .( as does the music ) .

The songs with mambo in their titles, were used for anything but Mambo. To remember.. in the UK dance schools were the promoters of new dances; "they " ( even now ) did not take it "on board" .

A very good friend of mine ( a former US Champ. ) did a demo and class , at a world class congress for teachers, in the UK, in, I believe, 1966/7. A cool response .
 
Unfortunately, the majority of the On1/On2 instructors aren't familiar with the actual dance itself. The Pachanga was the dance for Charanga music (at least in the USA), but most folks will apply their "salsa" repertoire.

Pachanga was one of the hippest dances of all time and I agree that there should be more of it today...

I'm actually not surprised at all. Many of our instructors don't care much to explain the dance types that go with the music genre other than milking the cow. When I started learning how to dance salsa, no teacher ever took the time to mention that there is something called On 2 , let alone pachanga. I discovered the On 2 then Pachanga by fluke and was extremely surprised to know that it is the most widespread sasla style in North Amercia and good parts of Europe and Pachanga is a true 'joy' to dance.

What's even more disturbing that dancers don't care much for the music itself (at least in my neck of the woods), be it Mambo or Charanga or any other genre. I always shake my head in disbelieve when dancers I dance with don't even know the pillars of the latin world like the ones which the aritcle above mentioned.

Having said that, i'm not sure who's at falt here. Is is the lack of literature, is it the lack of interrest from the instructors who's duty IMO is to educate their apprentices of the kinds of music and dance that go with it, the lack of airtime coveragre of the music genre or a combination of all of the above?

Now that you've mentioned it, I'm not sure anymore if the pachanga that I learned from Matos, Torres and Ferringo are the true pachanga, because there is no reference upon which I can base myself other than relying on documentaries.
 
I'm actually not surprised at all. Many of our instructors don't care much to explain the dance types that go with the music genre other than milking the cow.

It's a common thing and why just about anyone is an instructor. Music instrution is a whole other ball game as you really can't "hide" your lack of knowledge, etc. If you can't read music or know the basic fundamentals of your craft then 'clients' won't come so easy. The dance world is like... 'whatever'. It's been like this since day one...

What's even more disturbing that dancers don't care much for the music itself (at least in my neck of the woods), be it Mambo or Charanga or any other genre. I always shake my head in disbelieve when dancers I dance with don't even know the pillars of the latin world like the ones which the article above mentioned.

As far as knowing the pillars, I give people a pass on that because most aficionados of music don't really know the pillars or pioneers. They just dig the music and the rest is but circumstantial. What I do find incredible is that people who dance "salsa" never listen to it in their leisure time. I knew a young lady in L.A. who would go out 3 times a week dancing salsa, was always present at the annual Congress, but during her leisure time? Driving down the highway, the music that was on her iPod, just her overall knowledge. She had zero exposure to it outside of the dance club. I mean even the least hardcore of Salseros would know the names Celia Cruz or Tito Puente or can name at least ONE song. But this chick was completely deprived of knowing any music whatsoever. She didn't like listening to it she said. But loved the dance.

That last part. That line of thought? Makes ZERO sense to me. Mr. Spock would have been like "That is not logical...".

But its their world and we're just paying rent...

Having said that, i'm not sure who's at falt here. Is is the lack of literature, is it the lack of interrest from the instructors who's duty IMO is to educate their apprentices of the kinds of music and dance that go with it, the lack of airtime coveragre of the music genre or a combination of all of the above?

ALL of the above. And then some. You can also place the blame on Promoters. On film producers of documentaries. On the authors of books. On those non-commercial radio DJ's who just play the music they've selected to broadcast over the air and "go home." On film productions that touch on aspects of the culture.

It's just a cultural reality. Nobody wants to learn. Everybody wants to "be." No one wants to understand why they "are" or go through a process of figuring it out. No one will ever fully understand the present without knowing the past. That's just a fact and in every facet of life...

Now that you've mentioned it, I'm not sure anymore if the pachanga that I learned from Matos, Torres and Ferringo are the true pachanga, because there is no reference upon which I can base myself other than relying on documentaries.

I can't speak for Matos [Juan?] or Ferringo, as I've never seen their rendition of the Pachanga. But if by Tores, you are referring to Eddie, then it's the closest thing to it. As far as how people from the Bronx in the late 50s-early 60s danced "Pachanga." There is a music video by Joe Quijano called "LA PACHANGA SE BAILA ASI" that was filmed in the late 80s or very early 90s and how Eddie and his dance company, who appear in it, are expressing themselves is/was a very traditional way of doing it. Hopping in place and waving a handkerchief. That's just one aspect of it. There's a whole community that exists in NYC that can still express it. Obviously a much older generation. Look for a video on youtube of Tito Rodriguez singing "QUE SERA" where he is backed by his full orchestra on his tv show and there is a point where he begins to do a familiar "Pachanga" step. Again, he remains in place while doing a "walking" motion with one foot going behind the other.

But most folks today don't have the traditional approach down. You'll often read comments or ads from instructors claiming to dance 'Old School Mambo.' But it's not even close. And this isn't to suggest that what they are doing sucks. It just isn't "old school." It's a modern interpretation. 9 out of 10 times, for the "old school" you have to go to the "old school." Freddy Rios is one example of someone the On2 crowd is familiar with and knows the Pachaga well. But his students are few. The perception is he's old and he doesn't know anything hip. That's why its important for the young cats to learn the "old school" ways and teach it. Because audiences will be a lot more receptive to learning Pachanga from a FrankieM than they would someone over the retirement age...
 
I knew a young lady in L.A. who would go out 3 times a week dancing salsa, was always present at the annual Congress, but during her leisure time? Driving down the highway, the music that was on her iPod, just her overall knowledge. She had zero exposure to it outside of the dance club. I mean even the least hardcore of Salseros would know the names Celia Cruz or Tito Puente or can name at least ONE song. But this chick was completely deprived of knowing any music whatsoever. She didn't like listening to it she said. But loved the dance.
When people ask me about salsa dancing I always tell them: "It's not about the dance, it's about the music. It's the music that provokes me to dance, not the other way around" but it often falls on deaf ears.

It was literally "salsa beginer II" class when I was talking to my instructor, a high calilber dancer with over 11 years experience and really competition material, as I was smalltalking I mentioned to her that I started listening more to salsa songs and discovered some nice artists, like Hector Lavoe (at that time I did not know how important Hector was), her response was "Oh! I don't know the names of the artists" and I remember pointing my finger to a painting hanging on the wall of Hector in the club right behind her.

Imagine! she didn't know who Hector was!!


It's just a cultural reality. Nobody wants to learn. Everybody wants to "be." No one wants to understand why they "are" or go through a process of figuring it out. No one will ever fully understand the present without knowing the past. That's just a fact and in every facet of life...
I admit! There is a geniune disinterrest for the music in the dancers community, which is shamefull IMO.

I can't speak for Matos [Juan?] or Ferringo, as I've never seen their rendition of the Pachanga. But if by Tores, you are referring to Eddie, then it's the closest thing to it. As far as how people from the Bronx in the late 50s-early 60s danced "Pachanga." There is a music video by Joe Quijano called "LA PACHANGA SE BAILA ASI" that was filmed in the late 80s or very early 90s and how Eddie and his dance company, who appear in it, are expressing themselves is/was a very traditional way of doing it. Hopping in place and waving a handkerchief. That's just one aspect of it. There's a whole community that exists in NYC that can still express it. Obviously a much older generation. Look for a video on youtube of Tito Rodriguez singing "QUE SERA" where he is backed by his full orchestra on his tv show and there is a point where he begins to do a familiar "Pachanga" step. Again, he remains in place while doing a "walking" motion with one foot going behind the other.

But most folks today don't have the traditional approach down. You'll often read comments or ads from instructors claiming to dance 'Old School Mambo.' But it's not even close. And this isn't to suggest that what they are doing sucks. It just isn't "old school." It's a modern interpretation. 9 out of 10 times, for the "old school" you have to go to the "old school." Freddy Rios is one example of someone the On2 crowd is familiar with and knows the Pachaga well. But his students are few. The perception is he's old and he doesn't know anything hip. That's why its important for the young cats to learn the "old school" ways and teach it. Because audiences will be a lot more receptive to learning Pachanga from a FrankieM than they would someone over the retirement age...

Juan Matos' and Marco Ferringo styles are totally different. They both add more afro-cuban flavor to it. Alhtough I like their styles but I tend to preffer Eddie Torres' pachanga because I felt t was more original and closer to the real thing.

I also watched Tito rodriguez video and all I can see was a synchopated step which ressembles a lot steps, although not the same, which I learned in my afro-cuban and guaguanco classes. I'm going to watch it again.
 

At the 3:34 mark, he starts doing steps a lo "Pachangeao" or "Pachanga-like. TRod does a step at the 4:15 mark where he is moving forward in a playful manner. That's a recognizeable "Pachanga" motion from back in the day...
 

There is NY "Pachanga" style dancing replete throughout this video. Pay special close attention to Freddie Rios and Eddie Torres. They are doing the traditional manner as it was done in the Bronx, NYC, which is where this dance was born. The handkerchief was a part of that tradition.

Today's On2 Salsa dancers would be doing turn patterns and loads of partnerwork to a song like this or any other 'Charanga' oriented music...
 

At the 3:34 mark, he starts doing steps a lo "Pachangeao" or "Pachanga-like. TRod does a step at the 4:15 mark where he is moving forward in a playful manner. That's a recognizeable "Pachanga" motion from back in the day...

Yes! It's that step that I was referring to, now that I took a closer look it's not as synchopated as I initially thought. 4:15 looks a lot more familiar, although I did not know it was pachanga,
 
That's why its important for the young cats to learn the "old school" ways and teach it. Because audiences will be a lot more receptive to learning Pachanga from a FrankieM than they would someone over the retirement age...

Good thing Frankie learned his pachanga from Eddie. :) Both Eddie and Frankie occasionally teach pachanga steps as part of their shines classes.

I didn't know Freddy Rios still taught.
 
Good thing Frankie learned his pachanga from Eddie. :) Both Eddie and Frankie occasionally teach pachanga steps as part of their shines classes.

I didn't know Freddy Rios still taught.

I don't know that he does in fact. The last time I spoke to him was in a hotel room at the New Yorker where a mutual friend of ours from Los Angeles filmed us having a convo and he had shared (off camera) that students were pretty thin for him. This was OVER 5 years ago. I can only imagine things haven't improved. But I still see him at events doing his thing. So my thing is, if one wants to learn traditional "Pachanga," he is one of the people I would recommend seeking out...
 
I seen him mostly socal dancing at the Copa, El Mamoncillo, Old Timers Day in El Barrio, Side Street, etc. When he performed was he solo or did he have a partner?...
 
Now that you're familiar with Taino Towers, you HAVE to hit the Oldtimer's Day Festival. It's every year on the 2nd sunday in July. Usually the hottest day of the year. Dancing inside of a school playground to both a DJ and "live" music. Last year was 4 bands. And everyone comes from all over the country as much as the city. Even Babe Ruth's grand daughter if you could believe that. Think of a Salsa Congress atmosphere without the workshops or dance performances. Salsa music is on every corner and at nearly every vendor table. It's all about music, food, drink, dancing, people playing Congas, and a friendly game of stickball... :D

PS-Bring your video camera...
 
This is the sort of thing that obviously should have been in La Epoca (instead of yet more exposure for today's salsa scene).

He could have done both, you know? Based on what you stated previously, I'm gathering that he wanted to somehow show a connection with today's dancers and those of the past. The problem is that he skipped an entire era. The 60s and 70s. In order to accomplish this, you HAVE to present the Hustle era of the 70s in order to properly demonstrate the gradual evolution from classic 50s Mambo to present day turn pattern-partnerwork frenzy of 'Salsa'. I noticed on facebook, he has expressed a lot of feedback from today's dancers complaining about his series of films not being more about the modern day scene he hangs in (The congreso/dance social scene) So it seems he's leaning more towards that route than trying to revisit anything from the past.

Again, I dig what he was trying to do, but the completed project wasn't as complete or well rounded as it could have been. Also, some of the historical information was inaccurate. In the subject of dance, it is not an easy topic to present in a film format. Robert Farris Thompson is scheduled to publish a book on the history of 'Mambo' dancing sometime in the future and he's been researching this topic since the late 1950s. And he's still not finished. He's devote his entire life to it. So you know, it should be a serious effort...

Richie
 
He could have done both, you know? Based on what you stated previously, I'm gathering that he wanted to somehow show a connection with today's dancers and those of the past. The problem is that he skipped an entire era. The 60s and 70s. In order to accomplish this, you HAVE to present the Hustle era of the 70s in order to properly demonstrate the gradual evolution from classic 50s Mambo to present day turn pattern-partnerwork frenzy of 'Salsa'.

Not only does he fail to present the 70s era, he also fails to really present the mambo era - which is what the film pretends to be about. True he does have lots of waffle about the Palladium, however the actual footage of people dancing is overwhelmingly of new school salseros. There are a few brief clips of dancing in the Palladium, and no dancing clips whatsoever of the mambo era dancers who were interviewed. What a wasted opportunity - particularly considering some on the film are now no longer with us.

I noticed on facebook, he has expressed a lot of feedback from today's dancers complaining about his series of films not being more about the modern day scene he hangs in (The congreso/dance social scene)

That beggars belief.

In the subject of dance, it is not an easy topic to present in a film format. Robert Farris Thompson is scheduled to publish a book on the history of 'Mambo' dancing sometime in the future and he's been researching this topic since the late 1950s. And he's still not finished. He's devote his entire life to it. So you know, it should be a serious effort...

Sonds good, but to really document a dance form requires film of dancers demonstrating its characterisitics, flavours and intricacies. Anyone who wants to know what dancing is like on the congress scene today can look at literally 1000s of short films online (not that I'd recommend it, personally). Footage of old school mambo or salsa dancing is very rare, and La Epoca totally failed to remedy this. I can't imagine part 2 is any better in this regard (or any other regard, for that matter).
 
There are a few brief clips of dancing in the Palladium, and no dancing clips whatsoever of the mambo era dancers who were interviewed.

I think maybe he just focused on what he knew the audience he was targeting (Congreso/Social crowd) was going to recognize or be familiar with. He zeroed in on Cuban Pete and Barbara Craddock which is who the majority over there recognize. Andy Jerrick was also interviewed and he was, in fact, shown dancing in the 'Mambo Madness' clips. (To clarify, that black and white film footage of mambo dancing he included is not at the Palladium Ballroom. It is footage from a club called the Palm Gardens.) Another dancer who appears in the 'Mambo Madness' film and who he probably should have sought out was Carmen Cruz, who is alive and kicking. (And maybe she was as I still haven't seen the entire film). Just to present how you explained it. Examples of them dancing in the past and they talking about it in the present...

What a wasted opportunity - particularly considering some on the film are now no longer with us.

Just so you know, everyone who appears in 'La Epoca' have been interviewed via audio or film by more than a number of people over the years. So those folks who have passed on have expounded and given insight on a lot of things that weren't touched upon or expressed in the film. The difference is that 'La Epoca' film had its own platform and audience to share the footage with. The rest are private collectors, many of whom are leery of sharing their materials for any sort of commercial purpose or widespread exposure. Because of their mindset of being collectors.

Also, when engaging in projects like this, you HAVE to have thick skin. Because everyone will come out of the woodwork and express how and what should be included, etc. I think the film producer of 'La Epoca' may have gone through this and just decided he was going to do it how he saw fit.

Realistically, to get what you and I and others think would be a righteous presentation, it takes $$$. The fact is that while footage of dancers from before and after the Palladium era is rare, they do, in fact, exist. A lot of it. But sometimes its not even money. I have an interview that was recorded in the 80s by someone else with an overweight and balding gentleman who appears dancing in 'Mambo Madness.' As well as one with Anibal "Andy" Vazquez (Mambo Aces) who gives a really interesting response about what artists, songs or version of songs he, as a dancer, prefers to dance to. And why. It's a really interesting 'take' from a real dancer's perspective. Somebody wanted these for a project and offered some money. I refused. And ONLY because the individual was not well versed in what the real history was. They were going to use it in an inappropriate manner. They just wanted 'something' to show that was linked to that era. Not actually dive into the topic and use the information or materials to present a really accurate picture. It's possible that 'La Epoca' film suffered from this type of non-compliance from people that he may have approached. Then again, its up to the producer to do their homework and pursue the people and the content that will present a righeous study of the subject matter one is conveying...

Sounds good, but to really document a dance form requires film of dancers demonstrating its characterisitics, flavours and intricacies. Anyone who wants to know what dancing is like on the congress scene today can look at literally 1000s of short films online (not that I'd recommend it, personally). Footage of old school mambo or salsa dancing is very rare, and La Epoca totally failed to remedy this. I can't imagine part 2 is any better in this regard (or any other regard, for that matter).

The thought process of that entire scene (the on1/on2 congreso/social crowd) is a mirror image of what 'La Epoca' focused on. They know the Palladium existed and have these romanticized images and notions of it as being the 'elegant era' of Mambo dancing. And from there, histroy fast forwards 2 and a half decades and begins with Eddie Torres. Which is where nearly every dancer in the USA can trace their 'lineage' to. They either learned from directly or indirectly from a student of ET's who started their own thing. That's probably why the film probably, in a way, makes sense to them. Some of the important stuff being discussed (such as what Alfonso 'El Panameno' was conveying) wound up getting 'lost' in between all the inconsequential stuff being mentioned. To us, it's an incoherent mish mosh of opinions focusing on irrelevant banter and emphasizing certain realities while ignoring others. For example, the whole putdown of 'Salsa'. I appreciate that 'La Epoca' was attempting to demonstrate all of the various rhythms that are used to express 'Salsa' music. But it totally ignores the social context in which 'Salsa' exists. Yesterday and today. It's a term that exists regardless if a much older generation of musicians, dancers and aficionados reject it. That generation also rejects the way people dance now, yet 'La Epoca' still manages to include such footage of contemporary 'Salsa' dancing.

Bottom line there has yet to be a really serious effort of presenting a study as it pertains to our brand of dancing. A lot of it has to do with lack of financial support, a lack of education on the subject and a lack of an overall plan/guideline and bringing it to the screen. Also such a study can't concern itself with being 'entertaining' or 'commercial' to draw in an audience. Anyone doing this has to resign themselves that they're not going to make any money doing this. This has to be approached the same way a company who produces text books on U.S. History approaches it. Unfortunately, U.S. American History is valued moreso and deemed more viable than the history of afro-cuban style dancing in the USA. Unless all those private collectors donate their materials and a professional film producer, editor, along with a writer with knowledge on the subject, engages in such a project just to bring it to fruition and put the $$$ concerns to the side, there's never going to be a serious documentary or film revolving around this topic. It's not a topic that is widely researched and its also a topic that has a lot of 'holes' as far as certain individuals and styles being 'lost' to history because it wasn't being documented properly. 50 YEARS from now if anyone wanted to do a documentary about the Mambo dance scene from 1998 to 2013, they could probably pull it off due to the fact that there is more of an urgency, or rather an easier capability, to document today than there was 50 years ago...
 
Back
Top