A rant against the current Mambo establishment
- Thread starter Chris_Yannick
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Dissonant Harmony
Son Montuno
Nope. That guy is an Israeli dancer.Is that you?
granrey
Son Montuno
I wish. my math knowledge does not reach as far as him.Is that you?
I think a math proof is not enough because people will not understand it.
however, a physics proof would do.
I mean you can take a one step approach (On1) and throw a ball and compare it when you take a two step approach. I'm confident a two step step approach will give you better results.
Again, you can try the same test with music or without music. I dont expect any changes on the outcome (maybe more difficult because you have to be on beat). Lol
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granrey
Son Montuno
I personally dont understand why you guys dont like and help me on my approach.Nope. That guy is an Israeli dancer.
I suspect there is a romanticism or a preference to keep a mystique on why On2 is growing.
I'm quite confident the main driver is the two step approach.
For me is that's hard to prove as my knowledge is on "statics" instead of movement. In my area of expertise if something move is likely not good lol.
Can you guys please adopt @granrey
LOL !!!
There is no definitive answer, but, an educated guess is the word "mambo " has become quite prominent ( again ) over the recent past, and present. It likely prompted research in vids etc and then discovering that "2" was gradually becoming de riguer.
Many may think that this is a fashion trend, or are in locales where on 2 is prominent .
To all you mambo establishment haters, P2ers, graph and meme lovers, peeps with timing issues and general naysayers, let an Sfer set you free:
I think I remember this video when @sweavo initially recorded it. It was better than all the graphs. Something I noticed in the video:
1. Look at how he is dancing On1. It is with a more on2 flavour. He is stepping substantiously back on the ‘slow’ part. I dance on1 more or less similar when I am trying to hack it.
2. I tried P2 basic steps a few days back and ended up doing almost what I see him doing. The P2 timing is supposed to be 2,3,4..6,7,8. The most emphasis get placed on step 2,3 and 6,7. The 4 and 8 were throwing me off, since apparently the transition/hold is on 5 and 8. But what I can distinctly see in the video is that Sweavon is breaking on 2 and in-place weight transfer of 3, but is using 4 as transition, his left foot (which is used to break forward on 2), lands almost on 5 as he goes back. Is it me seeing my things or can anyone else confirm?
Gumercindo
Son
Yeah, like he said, he's kind of doing it on the and (4 and) rather than stepping on the 4. I've mentioned before, I think this makes the transition froom ETon2 to P2 a bit easier - rather than step on the 4, step on the 4.5
Dissonant Harmony
Son Montuno
Try going the other way around:
Emphasis on the 4, (carried on through the 5).
now the 6 and the 7 should be tiny steps.
Yes, it's definitively better than graphs. He demoed various timing interpretations that are reasonably close to on1, p2 and et2
In on1, third step (slow) is, well, a bit slower, falling somewhere between 3 and 4. Is it a hack? No - ballroom books actually don't define how slow steps are aligned to the beats and salsa books that could define that more precisely, as far as I know, don't even exist, so - it doesn't break any written rule I think. It actually conforms to how it is danced in BR standard (recently at least) where weight transfer in S step actually happens on second of two beats
In on2, he demoed possibility of slightly shift steps towards earlier or later in direction of p2 or et2, with some syncopation and without
He also demoed stepping by passing the feet (step 3 in on1 I mean) and also slight modification of basic step towards box step, meaning shorter break step and reallocation feet on both steps that follow in direction of movement - it's in use by most advanced linear salsa dancers in both on1 and on2. If you further shorten break step, you get casino. However, some beginner salsa dancers (mostly on1 though) modify it in opposite direction, which is another possible source of incompatibility when beginner is dancing with advanced dancer
So if we look the steps, it's ok. Well, almost. Dance teacher like terence would surely notice having weight on outer edge of the foot in some steps, which is part of the problem why his dancing doesn't look very nice, as he doesn't use his weight transfer to move efficiently. Other problem is that he isn't connecting body movement with it the right way, so he is combating the floor instead of using it - like most european dancers. So watching him above the waist or even knees, no matter the timing and added styling, it looks pretty much the same ... Unfortunately we are born on the wrong side of Atlantic ...
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I was born on the "right side" of the Atlantic and I have no idea what you are talking about.
I'm not sure what EUSalsa, EUBachata, EUZouk, EUKiz, etc is. Since you usually connect it with a negative connotation, I'd like to know what are the major tenets of these styles and how it is worse than the way they are danced in North America or on other continents?
I lived in North America for most of my life and they don't seem to be able to dance or step any better. If we are talking about the start/stop motion you see in a lot of European congresses, I wouldn't say it is particular to Europe and it definitely isn't taught in Europe. You are just seeing the same dancers over and over on the European congress circuit. I think I could recognize half of them as it's really just the same group of people travelling.
I wouldn't say that what you see in European congress videos is representative of how Europeans dance.
Just like how the US congresses are not representative of how the locals dance.
I can see he is almost stepping down on 4.5 and by 5 has shifted his weight to go into 6,7. The P2 is 234,678. The hold is suppose to be 1 and 5. By going from 3 to 4.5, there is no hold on 5.
By EuBachata I mean sensual bachata. Dominican version is based on lively and rhythmical stepping connected with movement of the hips. Sensual version is mostly lacking that, but much more bodywaves and other isolated movements in upper body, connected with closer hold etc ...
By EuKiz I mean french kizomba / urban kiz. Angolan version has relatively small number of moves, but again rhythm in the legs and pelvis. Urban kiz is again lacking that, but has heavy usage of bodywaves and various moves. You even have to move follower's legs in order for her to move (those are partially taken from semba "tricks" where they have a bit different purpose, partially adopted from tango, partially just made up)
By EuZouk I actually had in mind local zouk version, again with some similar differences vs brazilian zouk. Didn't dance much outside the venue ...
Etc ...
you can also add BR international latin here that also has roots in Cuba but was changed significantly
Surely it's not only Europe vs America but probably particular areas (like NY) vs other and of course in all areas there are better and worse dancers ...
My point was - it's not only about timing of the steps, but there are other things that can be different, so dissecting those 1 2 3 4 4.5 4.666 4.7 etc ad infinitum leads to, as terence said, paralisys by analisys
Although I have my preferences, I don't mean that other versions are bad. But there are differences ...
opm1s6
Son
Are you bothered that you aren't a Hollywood star because you can't get into red carpet parties?
Here's a question for you:
What if you got into the event and you got to dance with all of these passionate dancers for a weekend? Would you feel the same way?
The event has a limit, the promoter came up with a formula for how to separate the customers into groups and that further raised his status. Sounds like smart business and it worked. You may not like the event, but it sounds like the event isn't meant for you. Cool. There's literally millions of other dancers on the planet that are available to you. Instead you've decided to label on2 dancers across the planet based on one limit experience. That's where we now have a problem.
I learned on2, I perform on2 and prefer to dance on2. I also dance with everyone in whatever style they prefer even if I suck at it. I do it happily, with a smile and genuinely enjoy myself and the smile on my partners faces. I enjoy a rueda from time to time. I am also religiously devout to mambo and salsa dura and think it's crazy super magical awesome and better than other forms of salsa music...actually just better than all other music. I am a snob about it actually. Now what....are you ready to judge me just because I have a preference? You're invited to my house for a salsa party but I only have room for 20 and btw I'm only playing mambo music.
The only reason you didn't get access to this event is because there is a ticket limit, not because you dance on1. Trust me the event organizer would gladly take your money regardless of what you dance.
I've heard the same thing from multiple people including that the venues are really spread out and the dance instruction is fairly poor outside of some newcomers to the scene. That said, it does sound like it's improving.
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