A "hello" thread - and what do I really need to focus on?

T

TheCardinal

Changui
Love this board and am working my way through the back catalogue of posts!

I am new to salsa - I've been doing it, once a week, since September. Once a week I attend a group class for beginners, and also my friend who is an excellent follow gives me a "private" lesson too.

I've started social dancing with people after the classes and have the usual experiences others have documented so well here. No need to go over those.

But my first question comes down to understanding exactly what I am dealing with and should be focussing on as I take my lessons, and practice. The group class is very heavy "Cuban" and he makes that clear - it's all motion and energy and rotation? But when I am watching resources online, they seem very different. This couldn't be better demonstrated than when we did the "dile que no" move last week.

Now I've learned this - I think. I watched online videos of excellent teachers explaining it brilliantly, and when I practised with my friend we had it "perfect". Step forward and across on 1, make room on 2 and 3, guide her through on 5, step back into the opposite side on 6 and 7.

But then at this class the "prep" on the prior 6,7,8 was basically to turn her 90 degrees to the side, and almost slingshot her around on the actual move; followed by ending not facing each other again, but almost side by side.

I asked my friend and she explained it's the difference between Cuban style and New York style.... I think? And that our class is Cuban.

So my questions:

1 - do I need to worry about these distinctions
2 - this is my only available group (more on this in future posts I think) and I actually love it - the people are great etc - but am I "choosing" a route here?
3 - is it best to only use the moves we learn in the class during social dancing in that group afterwards? Or is it ok to "mix and match" styles - even in the same dance?

Thanks all!
 
TheCardinal said:
So my questions:

1 - do I need to worry about these distinctions
2 - this is my only available group (more on this in future posts I think) and I actually love it - the people are great etc - but am I "choosing" a route here?
3 - is it best to only use the moves we learn in the class during social dancing in that group afterwards? Or is it ok to "mix and match" styles - even in the same dance?
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Welcome to the forums!

To answer your questions:

1 - Your teacher should make these distinctions very clear to you. If you are dancing Cuban style, then you need to understand that this is going look/feel very different than NY Style.

2 - You are choosing a route, but I see no problem with sticking to a style as long as you truly enjoy it. If you want, you can try taking classes in NY Style (or any Crossbody style) to see whether that appeals to you more but that's entirely up to you.

3 - Generally, you will go social dancing only with people who dance primarily your style. In the Salsa world, the Cuban dance community doesn't mix with the NY Salsa community and vice versa. The best thing to do would be to find a venue which dances the style you are learning and go there. Also, your scene may be heavily skewed towards one style more than the other. It's good to know this information before you venture out to the clubs.

I wouldn't recommend mixing and matching styles yet since you will end up confusing both yourself and your partners who are new to the dance. Once you get more familiar with each style (and the music associated with each style), then I would start experimenting.

Although it is possible to mix in the beginning, I've never seen it from a studio trained dancer.
 
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You can read about this here:

www.salsaforums.com

Differences between Cuban Salsa and Casino on the dance floor

After reading through many threads in this forum, I think the question about the history and the historic influences of (Cuban) Salsa, Son and Casino has been debated numerous times. As far as I could see, people here do not really make a difference between Cuban Salsa and Casino. This stands...
www.salsaforums.com www.salsaforums.com

TheCardinal said:
Now I've learned this - I think. I watched online videos of excellent teachers explaining it brilliantly, and when I practised with my friend we had it "perfect". Step forward and across on 1, make room on 2 and 3, guide her through on 5, step back into the opposite side on 6 and 7.
Click to expand...
This is how it is sometimes taught in Europe. Partly, it is a linear influence, and partly, it is easier for beginners to explain because it is is in a line. Instructors want their students to keep coming back so they teach watered down concepts.

The drawback is that by stepping forward, you force the follower to step backwards, which can make the dancing less smooth. In my experience, the back step can be a bad habit that hinders many beginners to become intermediates.

TheCardinal said:
But then at this class the "prep" on the prior 6,7,8 was basically to turn her 90 degrees to the side, and almost slingshot her around on the actual move; followed by ending not facing each other again, but almost side by side.
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In Casino, this is how it should be done. It takes longer to teach, but it is more effective once you have learnt it.

On the dance floor however, many experienced dancers will do both. It is nice to change the flow of the dance and not just stick to one variation.
 
The mechanics of Cuban dancing are based on rotation around an axis, either the axis being a point between the dancers or sometimes the lead being the axis around which the follow travels. There are probably some moves where the lead travels around the follow, but I can't think of any off the top of my head. So the type Dile que from class is really in keeping with this where you both almost "slingshot" around the central axis between you.

I am seeing more and more of the Cuban instructors doing performances with much less rotation because the audience can see the moves a lot better if the movement in a line. I get why they do it that way, but it does take away one of the defining aspects of Cuban casino dancing.
 
TikiTaka said:
You can read about this here:

This is how it is sometimes taught in Europe. Partly, it is a linear influence, and partly, it is easier for beginners to explain because it is is in a line. Instructors want their students to keep coming back so they teach watered down concepts.

The drawback is that by stepping forward, you force the follower to step backwards, which can make the dancing less smooth. In my experience, the back step can be a bad habit that hinders many beginners to become intermediates.
Click to expand...

Do you mean in EU the some cuban salsa instructors teach DNQ as CBL? I see two as distinct. Both in leading, following, and the feel. I know on salsa forums sometimes in discussions, they are called similar or equated but technically they are distinct. When leading a follower into a CBL, I immediately can tell if she is a cuban style follower and switch (on those seldom occassions when they happen to be in on2 dancing room/social).
 
Offbeat said:
Do you mean in EU the some cuban salsa instructors teach DNQ as CBL? I see two as distinct. Both in leading, following, and the feel. I know on salsa forums sometimes in discussions, they are called similar or equated but technically they are distinct. When leading a follower into a CBL, I immediately can tell if she is a cuban style follower and switch (on those seldom occassions when they happen to be in on2 dancing room/social).
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Many Cubans teach a linear DQN. I have not said anything about slot dancers' CBL.
 
TikiTaka said:
This is how it is sometimes taught in Europe. Partly, it is a linear influence, and partly, it is easier for beginners to explain because it is is in a line. Instructors want their students to keep coming back so they teach watered down concepts.

The drawback is that by stepping forward, you force the follower to step backwards, which can make the dancing less smooth. In my experience, the back step can be a bad habit that hinders many beginners to become intermediates.

In Casino, this is how it should be done. It takes longer to teach, but it is more effective once you have learnt it.
Click to expand...

In what universe do you not step forward on a DQN?

Also how do you quantify "less smooth" and "effective"?
 
TikiTaka said:
Check end of video

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I did indeed check the end of the vid. I notice that at 15.43 when they demo basic step, the lead starts and ends with his feet next to each other. Whereas the follower has one foot a little in front of the other. Is having the feet right next to each other common in Cuban salsa? In fact, is that basic step even correct in Cuban salsa or is it a borrowing from US mambo/salsa?

That DQN at 15.20 looks like a CBL to me.
 
DJ Yuca said:
I did indeed check the end of the vid. I notice that at 15.43 when they demo basic step, the lead starts and ends with his feet next to each other. Whereas the follower has one foot a little in front of the other. Is having the feet right next to each other common in Cuban salsa? In fact, is that basic step even correct in Cuban salsa or is it a borrowing from US mambo/salsa?

That DQN at 15.20 looks like a CBL to me.
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And here we go. I will give you the Miami explanation.

We were NEVER taught the closed basic, just:
P'al Medio (1, 3, 5, 7)
Para Abajo (which is a rueda only closed basic - the move that got me howling at the moon in that other thread)
Guapea (Your open basic)

So when you dance 1v1 and you want to do the closed basic you just have to know how to do it. Since the general aesthetic was always "small steps" I would say that feet together is more what you'll end up with. But since you're moving around/styling etc, you're not gonna look anything like that cpl in the vid. Make sense?

Finally, there is a fairly common Miami move called Pa'rriba Tiempo España, which is another rueda only closed basic but you're moving forward or CCW in the rueda so that's not the same thing either.
 
Offbeat said:
But DQN and Casino/Cuban is not linear. It is curvy or rotational. Make something linear/straight/line and it is more salsa and CBL?
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You are free to label it that way. Those who dance both don't care what someone defines as salsa or casino.
 
Offbeat said:
It is not about labeling. The techniques are different.
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You are labelling the entire dance after the direction of a move.

I already explained the differences between the techniques and pros and cons for using either technique in a cuban context.
 
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