Not to Nerds like me where it’s a neandertalensis of early Songo examples! I love the Van Van version too. With Baretto’s perspective I agree. It’s fantastic to compare the different evolutions at the time, that’s it. Both versions are not my favorites nowadays, but historically I find them fascinanting.
10 most important Salsa albums
- Thread starter Richie Blondet
- Start date
DJ Yuca
Son Montuno
I've always thought of the Barretto as using songo/changüí as the source, but the end result is typical of the best in early to mid 70s NY salsa. Admittedly I haven't listened to it for a while. Are you saying the songo influence is heavier than just providing the composition? I know so little about songo that you may be right.
My point was that whilst the Barretto remains a popular salsa classic, the vast majority of people who listen or dance to Cuban music prefer son or timba/timbatón/reguetón to songo, which has mostly faded into oblivion. And even at the time was not a big movement. (I think Van Van were massive in Cuba in the 70s - my point is that very few other exponents of songo were also popular.)
Post them if you want, or you could even start a new thread, however I imagine anyone interested can find both versions easily enough.
Incidentally, which other versions do you like?
By that logic you could also say that changüí has an influence on salsa - because Pastorita transfers organically (albeit with a title change) to salsa in Barretto's version.
And the version I posted earlier (Conjunto Yumurí) sounds like standard son. Or do you think that version is a changüí? I know next to nothing about changüí too tbh, and to me it sometimes sounds very similar to son.
If making a good version in a different genre is a clear indicator of the influence of the original genre, that means the New Sing Sextet proved that NY salsa was influenced by the Sound of Music musical/film.
I'm not disagreeing with the changüí influence in songo, though. Without knowing either genre I'm in no position to say.
I have many recipes of Paella, too, if my off-thread activity is appreciated.
Funnily enough, Conjunto Yumurí's first album, prior to the one containing their take on Pastorita, was called La Paella. The title track being their wonderful update of the Machito classic. Sounds very different to either the Machito or the later update by El Canario (both of which I also love).
Of course you can make a nice version of any song, I was more referring to rhythmical issues in the groove and melody in the Van Van’s version.
I do hear it clearly, but then again one always hears what he/she wants to hear, so you may be right.
Absolutely. That was my point that I probably didn’t explain well. Los Van Van’s version is rhythmically more interesting and complex, Ray Barettos version is better arranged and harmonically more interesting.
I might, about Ray Barreto. I have to re-listen to many tracks of him first.
DJ Yuca
Son Montuno
Are you referring to changüí elements in the Van Van version? If you're familiar with changüí then you're qualified to recognise them. (I'm not. The only things I know about changüí are that there is no clave and they use bigger bongos than are used in son/salsa etc.)
As you're a trained musician and educator it would be very interesting to hear your summary of the rhythmic complexities in the Van Van version and the harmonic superiority of the Barretto arrangements.
The only Van Van tracks I actually like are a couple from their songo era, so I need to relisten to Pastorita to see if I enjoy it.
A Barretto thread, particularly from a musician's perspective, would be brilliant. He was phenomenal, over a period of decades. (In other words, even in his later years he did some of his best tracks.)
This made me laugh…
Looking for existing threads about Songo I found my first thread I ever posted in this forum - about Songo!
www.salsaforums.com
I’ll look for some Changüí threads. Explaining what you ask me here in the forum exceeds my possibilities with a broken keyboard of my computer and only using my cellphone.
changüí has some basic patterns but they are hardly ever played on the bongoes, there is a really free approach with lots of improvisation.
It’s more the syncopation in the melodies and tres patterns that make it also characteristic.
There is a brilliant book about Changüí by Ben Lapidus, I don’t have it with me now - I strongly recommend it!
Looking for existing threads about Songo I found my first thread I ever posted in this forum - about Songo!
Timba evolved out of Songo
Hello everybody! Just found salsaforums yesterday and I'm already a big fan. So first of all thanks to you all for all your threads, this is like a gold mine here for me! :-) So to my thread title a Timba evolved out of Songo: This is not me saying it, but a cuban singer, friend of mine, said...
www.salsaforums.com
I’ll look for some Changüí threads. Explaining what you ask me here in the forum exceeds my possibilities with a broken keyboard of my computer and only using my cellphone.
changüí has some basic patterns but they are hardly ever played on the bongoes, there is a really free approach with lots of improvisation.
It’s more the syncopation in the melodies and tres patterns that make it also characteristic.
There is a brilliant book about Changüí by Ben Lapidus, I don’t have it with me now - I strongly recommend it!
DJ Yuca
Son Montuno
I recall it has a specific maracas pattern. I think there is also a specific bongos pattern i.e. different to the martillo.
The maracas pattern is the same as son if I recall right. In the bongo pattern you’re right, it’s different.
But I feel bad being so off-thread in Richie’s thread, let’s leave this for another thread.
DJ Yuca
Son Montuno
I'd forgotten what this thread was supposed to be about but you're right.
I hope to start a thread analysing and comparing Van Van v Barretto versions of Pastorita. I would probably find even your basic thoughts on the matter enlightening.