“Cuban Motion”: what do most people mean by this term (rumba, or the bend/straighten knee/hip mechanic)?

B

bulldog91

Changui
I’ve noticed something interesting in my time as a dancer: some instructors are adamant about what they call “cuban motion”, by which they mean the bend/straighten mechanic of the knees that propagates to the hips and ribcage when stepping properly in salsa (obviously far more to it than this short description). However, when I ask other instructors about “Cuban motion”, they assume I’m talking about guaguanco/etc, which at least to my eyes is a rather different mechanic: flat footed rather than ankles going up and down each step, toes forward rather than out, weight more even across foot rather than focused on inside edge of ball of the foot, and so on. And they get confused when I describe the former sense of “Cuban motion”. Obviously both mechanics are important in salsa, but they seem importantly different, and it’s a little confusing to give them the same name.

My question is, which sense of the phrase “Cuban motion” (not the mechanic, literally the phrase—obviously dancers can use the bend/straighten mechanic even if they don’t call it “Cuban motion”) is more common in the salsa world, and is there any interesting story behind this terminology divide? I have noticed no relationship between the “level” of the instructor here and how they understand the term: even some genuinely fantastic dancers don’t seem familiar with the bend/straighten sense of the phrase “Cuban motion” (“you mean rumba, right?”). Is it a question of whether a particular instructor comes from a ballroom background or not, since I gather that “Cuban motion” in that context always refers to the bend/straighten mechanic? Or is there something else to it?

Curious about the experiences of others here. I sort of like having a verbal label for the bend/straighten mechanic as a pedagogical aid when it comes time to begin rebuilding technique, but “Cuban motion” seems a bit ambiguous for this purpose.

(Let’s not even get into rumba vs rhumba ;) )
 
Guanganco is Guanganco and Rumba is Rumba and Yambu is Yambu. All three movements are part of the Rumba complex.

Cuban motion is more a technical label and if I am not mistaken it comes from the ballroom world. I doubt instructors who have no formal training in ballroom or dancing will know how the Cuban motion is defined.
 
I've mostly seen "Cuban Motion" in Ballroom. Unfortunately, the hyper-extended movements of Ballroom look very un-natural - and the men look especially awkward. But for everyday Salsa, I thought this video was decent place to start (explanation begins at 1:30).

 
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bulldog91 said:
I’ve noticed something interesting in my time as a dancer: some instructors are adamant about what they call “cuban motion”, by which they mean the bend/straighten mechanic of the knees that propagates to the hips and ribcage when stepping properly in salsa (obviously far more to it than this short description). However, when I ask other instructors about “Cuban motion”, they assume I’m talking about guaguanco/etc, which at least to my eyes is a rather different mechanic: flat footed rather than ankles going up and down each step, toes forward rather than out, weight more even across foot rather than focused on inside edge of ball of the foot, and so on. And they get confused when I describe the former sense of “Cuban motion”. Obviously both mechanics are important in salsa, but they seem importantly different, and it’s a little confusing to give them the same name.

My question is, which sense of the phrase “Cuban motion” (not the mechanic, literally the phrase—obviously dancers can use the bend/straighten mechanic even if they don’t call it “Cuban motion”) is more common in the salsa world, and is there any interesting story behind this terminology divide? I have noticed no relationship between the “level” of the instructor here and how they understand the term: even some genuinely fantastic dancers don’t seem familiar with the bend/straighten sense of the phrase “Cuban motion” (“you mean rumba, right?”). Is it a question of whether a particular instructor comes from a ballroom background or not, since I gather that “Cuban motion” in that context always refers to the bend/straighten mechanic? Or is there something else to it?

Curious about the experiences of others here. I sort of like having a verbal label for the bend/straighten mechanic as a pedagogical aid when it comes time to begin rebuilding technique, but “Cuban motion” seems a bit ambiguous for this purpose.

(Let’s not even get into rumba vs rhumba ;) )
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I don't actually have very much insight on this topic as I am not familiar with how Cuban motion is taught in the Salsa world. IMO, it is more of a catchphrase for Salsa dancers who want to seem knowledgeable. I'm also guilty of this, but when I use the term 'Cuban Motion', it is the relationship my feet have with the ground.

Tehnically, I couldn't care less how people use the term outside of the Ballroom world.

If it can't be defined by the majority in the Salsa world, then what's the point having it as part of the dance?

In general, I think it is more information than people need in Salsa. I'm starting to regret ever using the term Cuban Motion.
 
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Groove On said:
I've mostly seen "Cuban Motion" in Ballroom. Unfortunately, the hyper-extended movements of Ballroom look very un-natural - and the men look especially awkward. But for everyday Salsa, I thought this video was decent place to start (explanation begins at 1:30).

Click to expand...
On an aside I recently payed for this course. Pricey but I'm glad I did. Lots of details I never got in 7 years dancing. But I still look like a dark arse waddler in partner work
 
The term cuban motion always tickles me. The earliest cuban dances had not a lot of body movement, and the religious (and profane dances derived from them) are flat footed, some with not a lot of movement. But yeah I guess the term is a white BR derived term
 
Offbeat said:
Guanganco is Guanganco and Rumba is Rumba and Yambu is Yambu. All three movements are part of the Rumba complex.

Cuban motion is more a technical label and if I am not mistaken it comes from the ballroom world. I doubt instructors who have no formal training in ballroom or dancing will know how the Cuban motion is defined.
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Tbh I've never heard of Rumba being used as a form of Rumba. The 3rd main I know of is Columbia (ironically very upright and more supposedly flamenco based". I'll delve further to see if I'm mistaken.
 
1derpalm said:
The term cuban motion always tickles me. The earliest cuban dances had not a lot of body movement, and the religious (and profane dances derived from them) are flat footed, some with not a lot of movement. But yeah I guess the term is a white BR derived term
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What I notice is that the people who associate Salsa with Africa tend to use a lot of body movement in their dancing. ETJr is like this. He always associates Salsa as being ‘African’ and that is reflected in his movement as well since he does tend to ‘Rumba-ize’ his movements.

If someone decides to study Afro-Cuban dancing, then it’s likely they will dance with an absurd amount of movement, some of which is completely unnecessary for Salsa dancing.

Then there’s the whole European Cuban dance import where almost every teacher has added Rumba body movement in their curriculum.
 
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Chris_Yannick said:
If someone decides to study Afro-Cuban dancing, then it’s likely they will dance with an absurd amount of movement, some of which is completely unnecessary for Salsa dancing.
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Not just afro-cuban but people a lot of people to whom movement is not natural and who try to do it. I rarely see "naturals" doing exaggerrated movement. But people to whom it's not natural, including Latinos tend to exagerrate it when they try to learn it as adults.
 
Chris_Yannick said:
What I notice is that the people who associate Salsa with Africa tend to use a lot of body movement in their dancing. ETJr is like this. He always associates Salsa as being ‘African’ and that is reflected in his movement as well since he does tend to ‘Rumba-ize’ his movements.

If someone decides to study Afro-Cuban dancing, then it’s likely they will dance with an absurd amount of movement, some of which is completely unnecessary for Salsa dancing.

Then there’s the whole European Cuban dance import where almost every teacher has added Rumba body movement in their curriculum.
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Tell them if they want original Cuban motion than dance danzón or Habanera.
 
TikiTaka said:
Not just afro-cuban but people a lot of people to whom movement is not natural and who try to do it. I rarely see "naturals" doing exaggerrated movement. But people to whom it's not natural, including Latinos tend to exagerrate it when they try to learn it as adults.
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I look at it as a learning process. First be explicit and exaggerate. Then, once it's assimilated, move on to next thing that you learn and exaggerate.
Some people learn in studios, some on the dance floor.
 
Chris_Yannick said:
I don't actually have very much insight on this topic as I am not familiar with how Cuban motion is taught in the Salsa world. IMO, it is more of a catchphrase for Salsa dancers who want to seem knowledgeable. I'm also guilty of this, but when I use the term 'Cuban Motion', it is the relationship my feet have with the ground.

Tehnically, I couldn't care less how people use the term outside of the Ballroom world.

If it can't be defined by the majority in the Salsa world, then what's the point having it as part of the dance?

In general, I think it is more information than people need in Salsa. I'm starting to regret ever using the term Cuban Motion.
Click to expand...

Whether people use the label or not in salsa, many good dancers displaying sabor definitely employ cuban motion to some degree. There are some good salsa instructors who teach it properly without calling it cuban motion. Ime it is the instructors from NYC salsa lineage that seem to be well versed in teaching it. Again they don't label it as cuban motion, but that's what it is.

We have several times mentioned that not all good dancers necessarily use cuban motion or Latin influenced body motion. Magna Gopal is one excellent example of so.

If you have cuban motion in your salsa dancing, it is like a cherry on the top.
 
1derpalm said:
The term cuban motion always tickles me. The earliest cuban dances had not a lot of body movement, and the religious (and profane dances derived from them) are flat footed, some with not a lot of movement. But yeah I guess the term is a white BR derived term
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The mechanics of it are still used. Pressing the feet in the ground (being grounded) and letting that result in your hip and rib cage movement when you do weight transfers, is very frequently used in most of the Afro-Cuban and Rumba movements.

The label itself is more formal ballroom term I think.

Not knowing the term and label doesn't mean its mechanics are not used by street dancers.
 
Chris_Yannick said:
What I notice is that the people who associate Salsa with Africa tend to use a lot of body movement in their dancing. ETJr is like this. He always associates Salsa as being ‘African’ and that is reflected in his movement as well since he does tend to ‘Rumba-ize’ his movements.

If someone decides to study Afro-Cuban dancing, then it’s likely they will dance with an absurd amount of movement, some of which is completely unnecessary for Salsa dancing.

Then there’s the whole European Cuban dance import where almost every teacher has added Rumba body movement in their curriculum.
Click to expand...

Those movements are definitely "afro" part of Afro-Cuban dancing. To me most of the body movements in Afro-Cuban dances (from orishas to Rumba) are of African origination.


More specifically to western part of Africa. You don't see them in the most of other folk or traditional dances from rest of the world.
 
TikiTaka said:
Not just afro-cuban but people a lot of people to whom movement is not natural and who try to do it. I rarely see "naturals" doing exaggerrated movement. But people to whom it's not natural, including Latinos tend to exagerrate it when they try to learn it as adults.
Click to expand...

Anyone trying to learn it as an adult will not look natural until they have internalised and mastered it to an extent.

It is similar to learning language before you are ten or learning it after you are an adult. Our brain learns both in very different way. Organic learning at younger age follows a different process. You are allowed to fail. You don't have to know or follow all the rules at the same time. As adults we are given so many rules to follow when learning something new and our adult brain has less learning plasticity compared to kids.
 
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