Rules for dating in the salsa scene

R

RugKutta

Changui
Ok, here's a slightly fresh take on a half-beaten-to-death topic...

A few nights ago, I chatted with two salsera friends of mine, (one online, one in person) and during both conversations, we ended up talking about relationships in the salsa scene. My friend online is dealing w/ a boyfriend who doesn't dance and has a hard time accepting her passion for it. My friend who I talked and danced with later on has a boyfriend who dances as well. After thinking about both conversations, I thought about posting a thread to see what does and does not work in salsa relationships of both kinds: relationships w/ one dancer and one non-dancer, and relationships where both members are dancers.

I have my own ideas about what would or wouldn't work; however, I've been single since before I was a salsero (just over 6 years), so my opinions, though they're based on what I've seen from other's relationships, may or may not hold much water due to my absence of salsa-dating experience. So, my questions to everyone who has been in a relationship since you’ve been dancing (whether you’re in a relationship w/ a dancer or a non-dancer):

1) If your relationship worked or is working, what made it successful in respect to dancing?

2) If your relationship didn’t or isn’t working, what went wrong (if indeed salsa was a cause of the breakup)?
 
chrisk said:
Not just one. ;) We had several threads before that are related to this topic. Here are the ones that I was able find with some quick search:

Dating Your Dance Partner
Overcoming jealousy issue when dating a dancer
Why are some great dancers chronically single?
Why So Many Salsa Break-Ups
Would you Marry or Date someone who is not a Salsa dancer?
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I am in same boat as Rugkutta. So nothing to talk about from experience.

Nothing to add right now but I think this is one of those never ending topic you can discuss it ad nauseam.
 
No disrespect intended, guys, but I really don't see what the big deal is. Similar topic, yes, but a different and specific direction; hence the new topic.
 
RugKutta said:
No disrespect intended, guys, but I really don't see what the big deal is. Similar topic, yes, but a different and specific direction; hence the new topic.
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Same color just different hues :)

Slightly tangential but this year I lost:( one of few salsa friends to this:

rodchata.livejournal.com/tag/breakups (written by another friend of mine).
 
Offbeat said:
Same color just different hues :)

Slightly tangential but this year I lost:( one of few salsa friends to this:

rodchata.livejournal.com/tag/breakups (written by another friend of mine).
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Ahh, Rodney. Thought that was a pretty well written article.
 
Beto said:
Ahh, Rodney. Thought that was a pretty well written article.
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I read this article before and I definitely agree. In fact, my first friend that I mentioned reminded me of this article. It's one thing if you begin to love the other person more than you love salsa, but if salsa is still very much a part of you, if said person loves you, they'll be willing to accept that part of you. Now, I haven't had a chance to test this out in a relationship yet, but whoever I end up dating and eventually marrying will have to realize and respect the fact that even though I wouldn't put salsa before her, I also won't put it down because of her, either.
 
RugKutta said:
I read this article before and I definitely agree. In fact, my first friend that I mentioned reminded me of this article. It's one thing if you begin to love the other person more than you love salsa, but if salsa is still very much a part of you, if said person loves you, they'll be willing to accept that part of you. Now, I haven't had a chance to test this out in a relationship yet, but whoever I end up dating and eventually marrying will have to realize and respect the fact that even though I wouldn't put salsa before her, I also won't put it down because of her, either.
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I can see why a non-dancer partner get insecure. Some rationalize it as "it is not that I don't trust you, I don't trust them". It still shows immaturity. And if one of the two lack maturity to understand, the relationship is not going to last. I don't see any reason to frown upon a healthy non-dangerous hobby. Another excuse I heard is about the time "we don't get too much time together therefore can't go dancing". It can't be that dancing is the only free time you have (not talking about those that go out 3-4 times a week but those who are out once in a week or two).
 
Offbeat said:
I can see why a non-dancer partner get insecure. Some rationalize it as "it is not that I don't trust you, I don't trust them". It still shows immaturity. And if one of the two lack maturity to understand, the relationship is not going to last. I don't see any reason to frown upon a healthy non-dangerous hobby. Another excuse I heard is about the time "we don't get too much time together therefore can't go dancing". It can't be that dancing is the only free time you have (not talking about those that go out 3-4 times a week but those who are out once in a week or two).
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that catch phrse is just bs. let's get serious if you you trust them, then short of an extreme, you are indifferent to what other guys are about and what's rolling around in their head. You can't just keep your girl in a bubble and I wouldn't want to.
 
Read that article. It's pretty basic. That's the #1 rule of dating -- don't be a doormat. Men do that as least as often as women. Just think of that nice guy friend that had every single one of his romantic interests turn into "great friends". The only difference is that doormat men usually get used and fail before the relationship, doormat women usually get used and fail after the relationship. So his advice is pretty general and applies to both genders.

Offbeat said:
I can see why a non-dancer partner get insecure. Some rationalize it as "it is not that I don't trust you, I don't trust them". It still shows immaturity. And if one of the two lack maturity to understand, the relationship is not going to last.
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You just described my last relationship. Except she's a dancer. I thought she would understand, but I thought wrong. She equates salsa dancing to flirting. She does not consider salsa dancing a healthy and non-dangerous hobby.

She even said the same exact catch phrase.
 
evilquesadilla said:
Read that article. It's pretty basic. That's the #1 rule of dating -- don't be a doormat. Men do that as least as often as women. Just think of that nice guy friend that had every single one of his romantic interests turn into "great friends". The only difference is that doormat men usually get used and fail before the relationship, doormat women usually get used and fail after the relationship. So his advice is pretty general and applies to both genders.
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Yeah you're right... this does happen to men as well, and you described it perfectly: Men become doormats before a relationship can even begin, resulting in being "just a friend" (this was me in my younger days too many times), and women become doormats on the way into and during a relationship, causing them to get burned.

You just described my last relationship. Except she's a dancer. I thought she would understand, but I thought wrong. She equates salsa dancing to flirting. She does not consider salsa dancing a healthy and non-dangerous hobby.

She even said the same exact catch phrase.
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This is exactly why having a dancer S.O. does not mean you're immune to these types of struggles. Your S.O., dancer or not, has to understand how you feel about it and share your mindset about it. You may have a girlfriend who loves salsa, but only loves to salsa with you, and gets jealous easily. You're in no better of a position than if she wasn't a dancer.

"She equates salsa dancing to flirting"... I just chalk this up to the fact that everyone thinks differently. I have friends who look at me like I'm talking out of my butt hole when I say that I would still go out dancing while being in a relationship (when indeed I do enter one). Some of them can't understand the fact that those of us who are serious salseros don't see dancing and romance as being synonymous. I just acknowledge that this is their opinion and don't expect them to understand mine. I just know that whoever I end up with just has to understand.
 
evilquesadilla said:
Read that article. It's pretty basic. That's the #1 rule of dating -- don't be a doormat. Men do that as least as often as women. Just think of that nice guy friend that had every single one of his romantic interests turn into "great friends". The only difference is that doormat men usually get used and fail before the act, doormat women usually get used and fail after the act. So his advice is pretty general and applies to both genders.
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Fixed for ya!

My last relationship lasted nearly 3 years and salsa was the other woman from pretty much day 1. This blindsided me because she was a great dancer and we met at salsa. But lots of really complex insecurities on both our parts came into play. The only thing I took away from that was not salsa related but doormat related. I drew one clear boundary but I did not follow up strongly enough when it was overstepped. I feel a bit sorry for my next girfriend already!

Reading the rodchata article reminds me of the old maxim: "a man meets a woman thinking she'll never change and she does; a woman meets a man hoping he'll change and he doesn't"
 
The tragic thing with relationships. Neither party should let the other one be completely absolutely 100 % safe and sure about the level of commitment..

There should always be some mystery or challenge, a private sphere. Whenever someone becomes totally certain of being loved, they will sooner or later get bored.

So, salsa could be a good way of keeping a loved one reasonably unsecure.., awfully cruel isn't it.
 
Melvin said:
The tragic thing with relationships. Neither party should let the other one be completely absolutely 100 % safe and sure about the level of commitment..

There should always be some mystery or challenge, a private sphere. Whenever someone becomes totally certain of being loved, they will sooner or later get bored.

So, salsa could be a good way of keeping a loved one reasonably unsecure.., awfully cruel isn't it.
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While I agree that there should be some mystery and challenge to a relationship to keep it new and interesting, I disagree that you should keep the other person feeling insecure about the relationship in order to do so. Of course, being completely sure of another person's love for you can lead to complacency and taking said person for granted, but to purposely keep the person from feeling secure about the relationship is playing childish games at best, walking around aimlessly in a minefield at worst. The only time I think it's bad to allow the other person to feel completely secure about the relationship is when said person isn't doing the same for you. At that point, there is an unfair advantage on that person's side, when in fact there shouldn't be an advantage for either person at all.
 
Thread has changed to general dating behaviour rather than salsa specific but perhaps it just all leads back to why salsa dancers are chronically single....

If we live so much of our lives at salsa then it can be hard to develop understanding and trust in the relationship when there are so many other people 'involved'. You need enough time away too so that you can establish a level of comfort and security to counteract any salsa demons at play.

Regarding keeping partners insecure, aka game playing, this depends on the individuals needs, misjudge them and it can backfire badly. No point game playing if someone is complete opposite and you make them feel insecure enough to want out. Also depends on what you both want out of the relationship.
 
crazygirl said:
Thread has changed to general dating behaviour rather than salsa specific but perhaps it just all leads back to why salsa dancers are chronically single....
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True, let's reel it back in...

If we live so much of our lives at salsa then it can be hard to develop understanding and trust in the relationship when there are so many other people 'involved'. You need enough time away too so that you can establish a level of comfort and security to counteract any salsa demons at play.
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One of the ladies I spoke w/ that originally inspired me to start this topic said something that made so much sense to me. She told me that whoever she dates has to have some kind of passion, no matter what it is... as long as he is passionate about something to the same degree that she is passionate about salsa. This way, her S.O. will be better able to appreciate her love for the dance. I think this can apply to relationships period. This is how you keep your girlfriend/wife from getting agitated when you choose to go watch the game w/ the guys, or keep your boyfriend/husband from feeling alienated when you go and have a "girls night out." Both parties have to have their own lives outside of the other person. Otherwise, jealousy and resentment rear their ugly heads in no time flat.

Regarding keeping partners insecure, aka game playing, this depends on the individuals needs, misjudge them and it can backfire badly. No point game playing if someone is complete opposite and you make them feel insecure enough to want out. Also depends on what you both want out of the relationship.
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Just my opinion, if you're looking for a serious relationship, there's no place for something like this, period. If you're just playing the field or just "kickin' it" (don't ask me what that means, I have no clue), however, then do so at your own risk.
 
I'd say I agree with you, Rugkutta and Crazygirl (what a strange sentence)

But after that period when I did read some dating literature, some book targeted to men, some to women, I did get seriously turned off from it all by the underlying manipulative ethos. It was kind of depressing how they could make a pretty convincing case for the thinking that one should never let the "childish games" end.

Anyway, leaving salsa or any innocent and healthy passion because of the wishes of an SO doesn't seem right.

If you actually care and love salsa, the SO will know about your sacrifice, feel slightly guilty about his/her demands which will make him/her find reason to blame you. There will also be a loss of respect from both sides. Not good.
 
crazygirl said:
If we live so much of our lives at salsa then it can be hard to develop understanding and trust in the relationship when there are so many other people 'involved'. You need enough time away too so that you can establish a level of comfort and security to counteract any salsa demons at play.
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Gospel, so true!
 
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