What to do when you stop enjoying the dance?

#42
Did you get confused WRT Juju Orchestra? that's not salsa at all.

Your musical preferences (Cuban leaning) and dance style preferences (NY style leaning) are cruzao, so of course you're not going to like the DJs and feel frustrated with the music. My ethnicity and salsa tastes are cruzao, but at least the music and dance style preference are synchronized to each other. But because I have a job that requires a lot of travel, my investment in learning multiple styles has paid off.

You sound like another perfect candidate for a multi-styled dancer, so that way you can get your Cuban fix. London is big enough that there are probably a decent number of multi-styled dancers as well that you might be able to meet and socialize with.
 
#43
Many "Real Cuban style" parties are "the same in green" as we say here. They play hardcore Cuban style and the people - that can dance westernized salsa at all .
WTH is Westernized salsa? What are the differences between Westernized and non-Westernized. And please note that whether Latin America is part of the west is a highly debated subject that will not be resolved in a salsaforums.com thread.
 
#44
When I say - 'Salsa' I refer to linear. :p

-Most of the dancers in Israel dance Cuban, yet the 'mainstream' style is LA.

-Almost every LA dancer here started with Cuban first.

-Clubs that have multiple rooms for different styles exist; other clubs will have separate "Cuban nights" and "LA" (And many of the loyal costumers would attend both types).

-Mixed parties exist, DJs who "sprinkle" some Timba "LA Songs" on their Cuban nights also exist...

Your average Salsero here would be familiar with both Salsa and Timba, and also know how to dance both LA and Cuban...So seeing people dancing LA to Timba is not such a rare sight to behold here. (It will be considered "not in place" for costumary reasons, but not musiclity wise).

*In fact, whenever I see someone spouting something in the line of: "On this song - you sound dance LA" - I can't help thinking now much of a sheep he is.
Where in Israel is the mystical city with all this variety of dancing? I am so jealous.
 
#45
Thank you for replies and suggestions guys, it is good to read your thoughts



Hi Chris, I try to interpret the music to the way I hear it, please note it is not like I do triples during slow romantic interludes. The problem is I am not satisfied with the way I interpret it. I don't mind it being imperfect, but I always feel like it could be done in a better way. You mention partnerwork musicality - and that is exactly what I always try to achieve, but it proves to be very difficult. On a rare occasion I know a song that I dance to and I try to hit certain breaks or fills, but the way it happens is very subpar due to the current position in a dance (i.e. the way I see an upcoming break is a sharp stop after a 360, but she is currently in a hammerlock position, so it becomes not possible, and I wing something mediocre) or any other circumstances. Then if I try to prepare for it in advance, it becomes something like a chess game and I lose the connection. I thought this would come with experience, but it doesn't, and I am getting discouraged a little :)
Good point about filming myself, I have actually been doing that and have quite a lot of material now, when I compare videos now to say 6-9 months ago, I can see improvements, but when I saw problems I was mostly just acknowledging them rather than trying to actively work on fixing them, so I will try to do that. I sometimes try to get external opinions from friends, but they are always very nice and encouraging, which makes me feel they are not being entirely objective.




I like the way you write MrR, and it is very close to how I feel when I watch the dance floor. A certain section hits, and it is like a code for the whole dancefloor to disconnect and start doing footwork they learned in their footwork/body movement masterclasses or elements from other dances. Sometimes to me it looks very impressive, but at the same time out of place.

Step back and listen to yourself, what "best dances" you want to give the follows:
Is it defined by the smile on her face and her denying to let you go when the song ends?
Or by the applause of the people watching you/her?


I feel a bit guilty after reflecting upon myself, because I think the second one has taken over. Lately, I have been caring more about how we look to others, rather than how she feels; and that sounds a little wrong. I would very much like to achieve both, but perhaps I should forget the second one for a while and pay more attention.


Hi Marcos,

I dance in London, on1 is dominant overall, but several parties are on2 dominant. I prefer dancing on1, but I like on2 as well, though I don't feel that on2 is "more musical" which appears to be a general consensus.
Type of music really varies from DJ to DJ and party to party because I go quite often. You would hear classic 1960s guaguancos and 1970s salsa dura getting mixed up with MJ remixes and instrumental mambo/latin jazz. Bachata and chacha are played a lot (which I don't dance), cuban timba is no stranger as well.

If I am honest, I rarely enjoy DJ selections. I really like salsa music and I listen to it whenever I get the chance (when commuting or cooking etc), but the songs I like are almost never played :( I definitely enjoy dancing more to the songs that I like and I know.

I don't speak Spanish, but I would like to note the music has never been about words for me, even in the language that I speak. It is like my brain doesn't process the lyrics and treats the voice purely as an instrument, so it has always been about how it sounds rather than what it is about.

About changing styles, I started salsa with Cuban, and I tried a bit of Cali, but I definitely much prefer crossbody, I really enjoy the technical aspects of it, the spins, the flicks, hand swaps, and supposedly more connected partnerwork. Maybe I should try to learn a different dance, for example bachata - perhaps elements of it would improve body movements, musicality and groove, but it is so hard to devote to another dance when I just really want to dance salsa :)
I'm not sure where you go out in London but you should find some parties or DJ's you like.
After listening to your first music selection, I think you like a mix of music. I would recommend parties like salsa fusion, el bembe, el grande, viva la revolution, bar salsa on Thursday, tito's on Friday if you haven't tried this places before. People there dance cross body, cuba, colombian or a mix of every thing. This were you will see more latin american people as well.
I guess you usually go to SOS, pexava....
Which party do you go to which is on2 dominant apart from TNT out of curiosity?

Also I never understood this mindset (I don't know if you have it) of "it's all about the follower" or the "lady", you have to make her look good blabla. What about yourself?
If you don't enjoy you'll end up dancing like a robot. In my opinion it's 50/50, give and receive. Both partners should enjoy the dance and feel good about it. I would say it's like sex where some peoples still think it's all about the man pleasure...no it's not
 
#46
Where in Israel is the mystical city with all this variety of dancing? I am so jealous.
Israel is comparable to the size of New Jersey.

Live anywhere near Tel Aviv, and you will be 30 mins max of driving away from socials, on a daily basis, and even have multiple choices.

I.E: On Wednesday there is Studio B in Tel Aviv (Multiple rooms: Cuban, LA, Bachata, Tango, Zouk Lambda, Kolombia, Hip Hop and Brazilian line dancing), Baila Salsa in Rehovot (I think it's its divided to 2: Cuban/LA and Bachata on that day) and Media Noche Rishton leZion in Rishon leZion (Just Cuban. Free entry)...

*And that's just within the 30-min-of-driving limit.
 
#47
WTH is Westernized salsa? What are the differences between Westernized and non-Westernized. And please note that whether Latin America is part of the west is a highly debated subject that will not be resolved in a salsaforums.com thread.
Take the "Salsa" you can learn at any festival or dance school in central/northern/eastern Europe or USA/Kanada. Be it linear or circular styles.
Confront Latinos - experienced with "Salsa" but not influenced by these dance cultures - and try to dance with them.
Then you know what "westernized" Salsa is.

(After you took part in the "Untrained Latinas" thread I would think you could work with the concept, that outside of the Latin world Salsa is danced vastly different to inside. But if you want to discuss that, make another thread.)
 
#48
I'm not sure where you go out in London but you should find some parties or DJ's you like.
After listening to your first music selection, I think you like a mix of music. I would recommend parties like salsa fusion, el bembe, el grande, viva la revolution, bar salsa on Thursday, tito's on Friday if you haven't tried this places before. People there dance cross body, cuba, colombian or a mix of every thing. This were you will see more latin american people as well.
I guess you usually go to SOS, pexava....
Which party do you go to which is on2 dominant apart from TNT out of curiosity?

Also I never understood this mindset (I don't know if you have it) of "it's all about the follower" or the "lady", you have to make her look good blabla. What about yourself?
If you don't enjoy you'll end up dancing like a robot. In my opinion it's 50/50, give and receive. Both partners should enjoy the dance and feel good about it. I would say it's like sex where some peoples still think it's all about the man pleasure...no it's not
Hey Uchima, my exact words were actually "Lately, I have been caring more about how we look to others, rather than how she feels;", and I've never had this mindset you speak of.

As for parties, I go to bar salsa on Monday, east putney incognito on Friday (or el grande once a month), and then whatever is on on Saturday. I take a studio class on Wednesday in YMCA in TCR, and on Tuesday and Sunday I just dance at home. On2 dominant are I Like it Like that, Mambocity at ULU and for example recent Salseology. They are a bit of a mix at the start of the night after the lesson, but pretty much on2 only after midnight.

I am not the biggest fan of SOS and El bembe, but I go occasionally when nothing else is on (like this week for example). I always go to Vinyl bar when they bring a live band in, and sometimes go Pexava on Thursday/Saturday. I will try to revisit salsafusion (I have been a few times at the early stages of my dance journey, but didn't form any opinion), and I haven't been to Titos, so I will check that out.
 
#49
Did you get confused WRT Juju Orchestra? that's not salsa at all.

Your musical preferences (Cuban leaning) and dance style preferences (NY style leaning) are cruzao, so of course you're not going to like the DJs and feel frustrated with the music. My ethnicity and salsa tastes are cruzao, but at least the music and dance style preference are synchronized to each other. But because I have a job that requires a lot of travel, my investment in learning multiple styles has paid off.

You sound like another perfect candidate for a multi-styled dancer, so that way you can get your Cuban fix. London is big enough that there are probably a decent number of multi-styled dancers as well that you might be able to meet and socialize with.
The thing is I don't really want to dance Cuban at the moment. I start learning with Cuban, and then I tried a bit of cali, but after discovering crossbody, I completely switched over.

That song might not be salsa, but I find it awesome to dance salsa to, some other examples are:

Latin Cafe - Cuba Island (can't find on youtube, but it's on spotify or googleplay).
 
#50
Take the "Salsa" you can learn at any festival or dance school in central/northern/eastern Europe or USA/Kanada. Be it linear or circular styles.
Confront Latinos - experienced with "Salsa" but not influenced by these dance cultures - and try to dance with them.
Then you know what "westernized" Salsa is.

(After you took part in the "Untrained Latinas" thread I would think you could work with the concept, that outside of the Latin world Salsa is danced vastly different to inside. But if you want to discuss that, make another thread.)
Yes I took part in that discussion, specifically saying that there was no excusing or sugar coating of Latinas who couldn't dance well. It was so ridiculous I had to specifically point out my own sister's issues as a follower, that it had been Latinos who had taught me to dance, and the fact that I had gone dancing all over USA, in Europe, Latin America, Asia, Australia, and the Middle East and had no problems there. But I guess in your world view Singapore is part of the west, while Puerto Rico is not. BTW, the Singaporeans would have done just fine at the clubs in Puerto Rico I frequented.

I can't work with your concept, I find it insulting to myself and all Latinos, and as I previously stated, since whether or not Latinamerica is part of the west is already a touchy subject you are not going to settle, I recommend you stop using it.

And if you mean to say that the average Puertorican girl off the street is not going to dance salsa at a high level, well I counterargue the average German girl will fall flat when dancing Waltz with a trained Chinese guy, and the average Tahitian girl will also fall flat to dancing traditional Tahitian dances when compared to a local Japanese girl I know that's teaches them where I live. That didn't mean those dances became Chinized or Japanized.
 
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#53
I think the average guy just needs to learn to be more selfish with their body while dancing. There's an expectation from guys starting from a very young age that we need to bend over backwards to make sure women are ok.

Unfortunately in dancing, when you give it all away (posture, balance, poise) there's nothing left to follow. Take care of yourself first and foremost - so they have something to follow.

I suspect this is why many women make great leads, they're not constrained by this expectation on males.

Notice the OP's only goal was to give his follow the greatest dance ever - this means he was already giving away all his power - it's no surprise he's not having fun anymore.
 

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