Salsa will never be what it was in NYC in the 70s

Here is part 3 of Peruchin over 1 hour of music with no filler material. I seem to enjoy Jazz best when the keyboard is the leader. There are of course plenty of exceptions. But to me this is amazing music, I believe all 3 parts are available on Youtube.

Salsa did come fro0m Cuban music, but in the 70's in NYC it was transformed into something else. Roberto Roena with "Mi Desengano" is a perfect example of something that was made that has no template, it is not the only because most music in the 70's came with no template other than the blood that flowed thru their veins and the musical talent along with their musical taste. It is also an example of how powerful lyrics were in music back then. This song leave a lot for interpretation which is the real genius of the lyrics.

The Cuban rhythms that make up the cultural label of Salsa were not invented by Puerto Ricans either, so how can you conclude this was a PRican invention?

Yes, Puerto Ricans and NYricans, Dominicans, and plenty of Cubans living in NYC were playing Cuban rhythms and adding their own NY flavor, mostly by mixing Latin Jazz (which is basically another word for Cubop or Cuban Jazz - this fusion was already done by Cachao in Cuba 30 years earlier, so you can't claim it was born in NYC either).

Puerto Ricans invented Bomba and Plena, and that's it.

This post right here is why a thread like this can't be taken seriously. You're over your head Mr. hiding behind a handle. Cachao invented Cuban Jazz? Really? Cachao has NOTHING to do with Jazz.


You must be one of those people who think Jam Sessions and improvising equals Jazz.


All you know is Fania and Mambo and that's it. To talk history of a musical movement you have to know everything. Not just little tidbits here and there of the 1950s and 1970s. Dropping names doesn't prove anything either.

You need to learn what Jazz is before you even think about arguing a point in relation to Jazz to anybody. Cachao had never, ever taken credit for such a thing so I don't know why you feel you're defending him in any way because you're not. You're insulting him by embellishing what he truly contributed. I STRONGLY recommend that you buy more records and put your magazines and books down. You are being led astray. If Cachao invented Cuban Jazz, as you call it, 30 years earlier [from when?] where is the recording disc that shows this? I have a good chunk of his recordings from Arcano y sus Maravillas to the 1970s in NYC so I wonder what you could possibly be referring to? That's a rhetorical question because I know you're just bloviating because you think it makes you look smart. It doesn't. It's quite embarrassing really. The way this music gets explained and perpetuated by persons like yourself.

Puerto Rican musical artists have done a whole lot more than Bomba or Plena. There's also the Seis, Seis Decima, Seis Chorreao, La Danza, the Aguinaldo, the Baquine, Reggaethon, the fusion of indigenous elements like Bomba and musica Jibara with Jazz. The dance fusions combining Afro-Boricua rhythms, instruments and other elements with those of Cuba, Brazil and the Dominican Republic, ETC. Not to mention the multiple variations of both Bomba and the Plena in themselves. Specific artists managed to take the Cuban Bolero and develop it further into what is known as Bolero-Ritmico. Which is the precursor to Salsa-Romantica. Uptempo bolero's featuring lyrics that revolved around love and romance. That specific style had not been prevalent previously and if you say it was, its put up or shut up time.

What about the compositional output? You seem to think that Puerto Ricans equal Salsa recordings in the 1970s based on Cuban covers. If you actually checked, the same applies to Cuban artists in reverse. It's a normal practice that has been part and parcel of this musical tradition.

You can't talk about this music without discussing Puerto Ricans and specifically P.R. musicians and dismissing them the way you do. The history of Cuban music is hand in hand with the Puerto Rican community being its most ardent supporter and contributor since day one. The famous composer Rafael Hernandez wrote a lyric that belonged to another song he had written that went "Ahhh, aahhh ahhhh ahhhh [2X] Ya amenecio, en el sitial, el gallo canta, su dulce canto, por la manana, la guajirita se levanto...". That famous line that could be heard in the Miguel Matamoros penned SON DE LA LOMA, a staple of Cuban popular music, is as a result of Miguel Matamoros cribbing from Rafael Hernandez. Just one of the earliest example of a Puerto Rican contributing to Cuban musical folklore as early as 1921. When Hernandez was both living and working in Cuba at the time. This information comes courtesy of someone who actually researched it via recordings among other leads. Mr. Cristobal Diaz-Ayala. A SERIOUS student of this music.

The Cuarteto format, which you have no clue about, was first augmented and developed into the model we know it as in NYC by a collaboration between Puerto Rican and Cuban musicians and, later, predominantly by Puerto Rican musicians. Afro Cuban Jazz as it is known today, was BORN in Harlem, USA. And it was a collaboration between multiple nationalities. West Indian, African American, Puerto Rican, Anglo-american and Afro-Cuban. Afro-Cuban Jazz is North American music. There is no Cuban Jazz taking place in the 1920s or 1930s as much as you would like for that to be true. You also have a variety of musical figures who hail from the Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico, Panama, Virgin Islands, African American, Irish-Americans, as well as Cubans who were exploring marrying Cuban and other Latino elements with then early Jazz 11 years prior to the formation of Machito and the Afro Cubans. Some were novelty and some were quite structured in a way that is an earlier blueprint to the movement of the 1940s.

None of this is happening anyplace else. I'm sorry if it pokes at someone's ego but its just a fact. This has been studied by many people who are serious "scholars" and at an ad nauseum level and anyone's complaints about how the West Coast is being disregarded or Cuba is not being mentioned in this regard is just sour grapes. The history of this music can be found in the recordings. Not Fania era recording which is what your whole argument(s) is based around. You're going to have to do searches on youtube and look for even OLDER material. Or start investing in old recording catalogs. They're out there and available if you actually look for them.
Interesting stuff. Incidentally the poster you are responding to was banned (again) some time ago (presumably for his habit of being extremely rude to anyone who didn't agree with him, which was pretty much everyone on the forum).
DJ Rick is right of course. It will be never the same. The main actors involved in creating this music to mention just a few Mongo Santamaria, Cachao Lopez, Tito Puente, Celia Cruz, Hector Lavoe, Ismael Rivera, Patato Valdez, Chocolate Armenteros are all dead. And there is in NY hardly a new generation taking their places....


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