Misconceptions I had

azzey

Son Montuno
#61
As for my Usher reference - if I watch any decent R&B dancer with the sound off I can tell immediately what music they're getting down to, regardless of ethnicity and attire of the the dancer. The WCS vids above with no sound could have been to any music whatsoever.
So what kind of music does the dancing in this video project? Looks like studio dancers from a Michael Jackson video. Hardly anything "Ghetto" there.

 
#64
I am still trying to think of a misconception that I had. I am sure there must have been some but nothing that jumps out. I think I came into salsa with very low expectations and very open mind not knowing what to expect. I also never got into pattern learning and till to this day have very a limited repertoire of moves. I remember my very first salsa class was a progressive 4 week series. Looking back instructor wasn't that great, but good enough for a class of those who had never danced before.

After the class he kept going on and on about perfecting just the basic step. How he has been trying to do it for six months and how he still tries to practice if when going out social dancing. I was pretty impressed by his efforts to perfect the basic step and his passion behind it.
 
#67
I'm not saying that r&b style dancing hasn't influenced the dancing in other genres of music, and maybe you're right and that comment of mine was inaccurate.

However I stand by my main point which is that the style of dancing in the WCS vids seems to bear no relation to r&b music or dance, and were someone to do that dancing in the environment in which r&b comes from, I don't think it would be well received.

(Use of r&b is strictly in the contemporary meaning of the term.)
 

vit

Son Montuno
#68
Of curse that style of dancing in those clips is different than other people (non WCS dancers) would dance to it, as it is still WCS, adjusted to more contemporary type of music. WCS has only 5 basic moves (or 14 by well known teacher Skippy Blair, but those are pretty much variations of those 5), everything else is development or import from other dances. I have following problems with dancing on those clips:
- I don't like most of that music (which is similar to what is played here, just that is even more bad here)
- dancing in my venue to that music is not even close to those videos, as those are world best WCS dancers, while in my venue people have 1 or 2 years of WCS dancing behind, so it looks quite chaotic so to say

But it is the reality of WCS of today, so there is not much I can do about it except to partially accept it
 

azzey

Son Montuno
#69
Jackson, Mississippi. Basically 3 hours from the nearest likely spot (New Orleans).
I guess the fact that we have no Cuban or Colombian style instructors anywhere near us must make it harder to see the commonality. It appears very different, and the people around here who do it cant easily (or dont want to) explain it.

It makes it all seem so mysterious. I really crave learning some of those styles but my isolated location makes that highly improbable, outside of spending serious regular travel money. :)
Yeah I can see your problem.

I was thinking your best bet to learn Casino is by Rueda De Casino. Most groups will teach the moves. You already have most of the necessary footwork, which is your Salsa basic steps. There are just the small variations which I already pointed out in the other videos and some really simple things like walking forward.

If you can't join an already existing group then you can form one with one or more interested couples, someone who also wants to learn like you just for the fun of it. The minimum for rueda is 2 couples.

All you need are a few of the basics in this video to start, which you can practice as you go:


For example, the basic walking forward/backward, Dile Que No, Enchufla Doble Y Quedate (the left turn one done twice) and Adios Toda La Familia (good bye to all the family - open break under the arm + left turn + walking arm in arm).

Break those basic moves apart into the component moves (e.g. cross-body lead, left turn or open break) and you get 90% of this video:


A more beginners like version in Miami style would look something like this:

Again, using the basic moves taught in the video above.
 
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#70
Thinking about the ideas I had starting out, which I discovered much later to be wrong. Maybe others can add theirs.

A really long, long time ago before I was anywhere near a dance floor I had the misconception that going to a salsa event was dangerous - shady neighborhood, shady people, guns, knives, brawls on the dance floor because some guy asked the wrong girl etc. Seriously. Thankfully it wasn't that way, and the people that I've met have been great.
Still I am very cautious about asking a girl who is obviously there with a boyfriend (which means I never do). Partly due to courtesy, partly due to not wanting to disprove my misconception!
 
#72
Some things I actually got right, right off the bat:
-joining a team, which I was initially very resistant to, helped me become much much better, but also increased the amount of dances I 'owe' different people when I go out. In other words, both social and performing technique DID make me a more popular and better dancer with people I knew and didn't know, in different cities including NYC.
-salsa overall has been going downhill, and although I really wish for a reversal, I don't see it, especially with bachata coming on very strong.
-more interesting smoother patterns DID make me more popular, everywhere.

Things I got wrong:
-I won't burn out.
-I'm fine being at the level I am.
-On2 is great, but pretentious. Still kinda believe this.
-Youtube is dangerous, you can't learn anything off YouTube!
 
#73
-On2 is great, but pretentious. Still kinda believe this.
-
you can't learn anything off YouTube!
What about do you consider "pretentious " about 2 ?.. It's simply a choice, nothing more nothing less. If you had stated that some who choose 2 and believe it's superior, then you may have a case..

I do not go on the tube, but I would venture to say that's a pretty sweeping statement
 

Jag75

Son Montuno
#75
Some things I actually got right, right off the bat:
-joining a team, which I was initially very resistant to, helped me become much much better, but also increased the amount of dances I 'owe' different people when I go out. In other words, both social and performing technique DID make me a more popular and better dancer with people I knew and didn't know, in different cities including NYC.
-salsa overall has been going downhill, and although I really wish for a reversal, I don't see it, especially with bachata coming on very strong.
-more interesting smoother patterns DID make me more popular, everywhere.

Things I got wrong:
-I won't burn out.
-I'm fine being at the level I am.
-On2 is great, but pretentious. Still kinda believe this.
-Youtube is dangerous, you can't learn anything off YouTube!
Pretentious? Only to people who don't dance On2.
 
#76
Now I'm really curious as to what your definition of ghetto is?
MJ was ghetto in that he came from a tough background, his music was and remains highly popular in the ghetto, and he was highly influential in the development of street dance. He was not ghetto in that he became rich and for many years isolated himself from his background.
 
#77
What about do you consider "pretentious " about 2 ?.. It's simply a choice, nothing more nothing less. If you had stated that some who choose 2 and believe it's superior, then you may have a case..
Pretentious? Only to people who don't dance On2.
To the second point, that's partially it. After dancing for many years and teaching both on1 and on2, on2 is harder to understand, and in that sense can be "exclusive." As in, it can have a higher barrier of entry for beginners fumbling around with timing.

I still at times believe a lot of people enjoy on2 not just because of the different musical feeling you get, how stepping changes because of where the pause is etc, but also because it subconsciously feeds the ego to be able to dance it well. In my city there's a clear perceived hierarchy that on2 is more difficult and therefore better.

So yes, I still consider elements of on2, and some of its dancers, to be pretentious.
 
#78
After dancing for many years and teaching both on1 and on2, on2 is harder to understand, and in that sense can be "exclusive." As in, it can have a higher barrier of entry for beginners fumbling around with timing.
Thank your lucky stars you did not begin dancing in the 50s when only on 2 was being taught.The majority of students in that era were 60years plus, and never did I come across any one who did not eventually succeed .

The problem today is not "difficulty " , but the urgency for immediate gratification .

Like any dance discipline, it's about HOW one teaches their students. And yes the timing is some what different in most dances (exceptions, Cha and Intern. Rumba ) , but even they can and do have complex timing in basic figures .
 
#79
After dancing for many years and teaching both on1 and on2, on2 is harder to understand, and in that sense can be "exclusive." As in, it can have a higher barrier of entry for beginners fumbling around with timing.
How many years have you been dancing? I am surprised that you are teaching after I read the bolded part. Many including myself started with on2. It wouldn't have made any difference whether we had started on1 or on2. As a beginner on2 is as easy or as difficult as on1. It was as difficult to find first beat as it was to find the second beat.

Changing from either gets challenging because of the habit and muscle memory. Do you think it is any easier for an On2 dancer to learn on1?
 
#80
How many years have you been dancing? I am surprised that you are teaching after I read the bolded part. Many including myself started with on2. It wouldn't have made any difference whether we had started on1 or on2. As a beginner on2 is as easy or as difficult as on1. It was as difficult to find first beat as it was to find the second beat.

Changing from either gets challenging because of the habit and muscle memory. Do you think it is any easier for an On2 dancer to learn on1?
First class when I was 19, for a summer. I danced with that base with few classes until I was 26, then took it more seriously. I'm 29 now and have just been teaching beginners for a year and occasionally up to "intermediate," whatever that means, when needed and I can find the time. I'm not that good. But I've seen the problems beginners have for a while now.

I'll email you my resume, jaja.

Come to the studio I teach in and the on2 beginner classes, priced exactly the same as on1, have tumble weeds. Across the city, that is also the case in general at a beginner level. On1 in my uneducated opinion is way, way more accessible. It is a gateway drug to the panacea of on2. I had no idea this would be such cause for controversy.

Yes, on2 dancers learn on1 a lot more easily in the few dancers I've seen it. As I read here somewhere, it's extremely rare to see on2 dancers willingly switch to on1. At this point, for a while now, I've preferred on2. We can speculate on the reasons all we want. But usually on2 dancers are much more used to counting while dancing because that's the way I was taught if the tumbao or clave are not obvious/nowhere to be found. Which is often.
 

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