LA style or Cuban?!?

Your internal muscle memory.

It's possible to delay steps or rush them, but on1 dancers practice fitting their basic steps into the count of "123, 567", and ETon2 dancers practice fitting the same thing into the count of "67 1,23 5".

you don't need or rush any steps.

123-567
is the same basic as 678-
So much mess...

1) On1, On2, On3...Are not styles.
2) LA and NY are styles.

3) Most On1 dancers dance QQS (1-2-3).
4) You can do the same thing, On2: QQS (2-3-4).
5) But instead it's actually more popular to dance On2: QSQ (2-3-5)! As you can see, this is different than what mentioned above,

6) LA is a show dance, characterized by sharp dynamics, heavy tension and compression between the dancers, big steps, very linear...
7) NY is a social-dance, and is generally more smooth, soft and compact.

-OFC, there are no black and whites, and people are allowed to express themselves and communicate the way they feel.
But some styles of dancers can distinctive enough one may say whether they are more 'LA' or more 'NY'.
I totally agree with this.

I only dance On1 but learned lots of NY style that I use on my dancing. I also use lots of LA.
 
Exactly

@granrey, may I ask about venue where you usually dance salsa? I'm asking that because a number of videos that you posted are with ballroom dancers dancing salsa

Most of us here dance salsa in salsa venues / congresses etc, that includes salsa, some bachata and maybe some cha cha cha. These crowd are different than ballroom crowd and usually don't mix with them. So whole approach to dancing and teaching is quite different. In ballroom schools, people usually dance a few relatively basic moves and usually with regular partner or smaller number of partners. In salsa venues, it's quite different - there is big "inflation" of both number of moves you dance and number of partners you dance with, compared with BR salsa. Because of that, muscle memory is playing very important role and limit things that are not big problem if danced in BR venues. Of course you can dance your own version of on1 / on2, delay or speed up some steps etc ... but you quickly run into compatibility problems with other dancers and their muscle memories in pretty much every move you do. And it indeed is a problem in salsa (and also in similar kizomba venues) - various teachers teach things differently, so with some people you can have very good dance, with some other you can't ... just because various tiny details in your dancing are somewhat different
I usually dance on clubs and Dance studios.

my main challenge on Salsa is that I'm originally from Dominican Rep. my people dance salsa in numerous ways. pretty much all their versions is with men starting going forward with the left leg, either with a tap or a break. meaning they could be Dancing On1 or On2 with their style that is not necessary LA or NY but most related to Cuban and Colombia Salsa.

there are versions of people dancing crusado as well.

However, on that topic I did not learn to dance Salsa in Dominican. I moved to Canada in my mid 20's. I learned Salsa by asking how to follow the beats on this forum (i even made a tread about it and lots of people helped me on that tread and others) and then taking classes On1 in different schools in Canada plus watching YouTube videos of people dancing NY On2 to apply the moves on On1 since those were the most popular videos I could find at the time from Expert Village.

I have taken classes mostly On1 but I have also taken few classes on On2. but my On2 that I was taught was not NY. We hold the 1, then we break on 2 with left leg. the count would be 2-3, 6-7. my teacher probably did this to show it was the same, who knows.

I have also taken classes in ballroom cha-cha.

due to my accidental background I have been in touch with different versions one way or another.
 

vit

Son Montuno
As you said in other post, too much theory doesn't make sense

It's because whole mechanics of movement in dancing is very complicated and not much studied using real scientific methods, so all these "theories" are big approximations of what actually happens and are actually pseudotheories (dating back from BR as a kind of teaching aid). By choosing appropriate "theory" you can prove pretty much everything ... However, there are some real studies using scientific methods, done recently within some BR sport dancing organizations, but not published anywhere in detail because they were quite expensive ...

Real observation should include a number of other things, for instance:

- definition when the step happens (moment when you put the foot to the floor, moment when you are in center balance, moment when you have maximum weight on it etc ... ) various styles / genres / regions do it differently, and that IS also connected with "dancing on the melody" vs "dancing on the rhythm") and this is part of the difference among various versions of on1 and on2, cuban vs linear, States vs Europe, salsa vs BR, kizomba vs urban kiz, dominican bachata vs sensual bachata etc
- what happens when turning (you don't turn you feet, hips, shoulders at the same time - some of them start earlier, are overtaken with other body parts during turn, and overtake them again later etc)

So within these things, it's easy to get some reserve both in timing and in turning that will enable you to do the same move whether smooth or snappy in both on1 and on2, but still being inside of "limits" that would be classified as "cheating the steps / timing". Etc

So proving these things this way is pretty much useless. I understand some people don't like JV and I don't like terry ... it's not because its on1 or on2, but because we don't like the way how they dance overall ...
 
Yes, plus bodies differ as well, which will affect the style as well.

Sometimes I like Terry, sometimes not. Same goes for other celebrities. Some songs his style looks nice to me, most times not.
That's why I try to dance with different 'styles' to different songs. With style I mean more or less turns and hard breaks or smaller or larger steps. That's if I don't have to take into account the capabilities of the lady.
 
From last year:

There was a competition this year but I can't find any youtube footage
That is the LA Top social dancer at La Granada here in LA. The guy who won is Cristian Oviedo. He has several World Championships and used to perform with Liz Lira a lot. The division he performed in is for professionals only. Most all of the ppl in that division have won a world championship or something else and are salsa instructors here in LA. It is more of a show/competition and not how they social dance. It is strange that they say Top Social dancer and then all the professionals go way out for LA style. You can youtube LA Top Social dancer and see some of others that performed also.
 
I would be surprised if the winning guy has no BR background. Clean and sharp. The rest all over the place.
That is the LA Top social dancer at La Granada here in LA. The guy who won is Cristian Oviedo. He has several World Championships and used to perform with Liz Lira a lot. The division he performed in is for professionals only. Most all of the ppl in that division have won a world championship or something else and are salsa instructors here in LA. It is more of a show/competition and not how they social dance. It is strange that they say Top Social dancer and then all the professionals go way out for LA style. You can youtube LA Top Social dancer and see some of others that performed also.
 
Its not about counting. You just need to know the two cycles are separated by 5 beats. If you know this simple fact, any move can be converted.

Any move from On2 can done on On1 the same way. All you need to do is deduct 5 beats. Meaning if a move on On2, starts on beat 6. On On1, the move will start on beat 1.

You can do the opposite. If you want to convert a move from On1 to On2. You just need to add 5 beats.
I hear what you are saying. By moving 5 beats it will get you breaking on the 2 and 6 but it doesn't give you the correct QQS/flow that is different between on1 and on2(ET). This is the best way I can explain the different "styles"

Try doing both to the on1 count:

LA Style: 123-4 is QQS (S is over the 3-4), 5678 is QQS (S is over the 7-8).
NY Style: 12-34 is QSQ (S is over the 2-3). 56-78 is QSQ (S is over the 6-7).

Then once you get the feeling of the NY style and where the correct Slow steps are, add 5 beats to the timing to make sure it is then "on2."

It is also fun to dance on1 with the NY style QSQ. Really makes some ppl scratch their head.
 
That is the LA Top social dancer at La Granada here in LA. The guy who won is Cristian Oviedo. He has several World Championships and used to perform with Liz Lira a lot. The division he performed in is for professionals only. Most all of the ppl in that division have won a world championship or something else and are salsa instructors here in LA. It is more of a show/competition and not how they social dance. It is strange that they say Top Social dancer and then all the professionals go way out for LA style. You can youtube LA Top Social dancer and see some of others that performed also.
I watched the vid with no music. :eek: .
 
I hear what you are saying. By moving 5 beats it will get you breaking on the 2 and 6 but it doesn't give you the correct QQS/flow that is different between on1 and on2(ET). This is the best way I can explain the different "styles"

Try doing both to the on1 count:

LA Style: 123-4 is QQS (S is over the 3-4), 5678 is QQS (S is over the 7-8).
NY Style: 12-34 is QSQ (S is over the 2-3). 56-78 is QSQ (S is over the 6-7).

Then once you get the feeling of the NY style and where the correct Slow steps are, add 5 beats to the timing to make sure it is then "on2."

It is also fun to dance on1 with the NY style QSQ. Really makes some ppl scratch their head.
Eehhh? When you say NY you mean ET2? If yes, then that is also QQS. You step on 123 so the slow is again over 3-4.
 
Eehhh? When you say NY you mean ET2? If yes, then that is also QQS. You step on 123 so the slow is again over 3-4.
Yes, if you are doing guy's count with the 1 in place and then stepping back on 2.

I was pointing out that the slow step happens on different feet for on1 vs on2.
Take what you said above:
On2- mens count
Step 1 is left foot in place. Quick beat 1
Step 2 is right foot (breaking foot) Quick beat 2
Step 3 is left foot. Slow beat 3-4
On1- going with ladies count this way both ppl are starting going back.
Step 1 is right foot back (breaking foot). Quick beat 1
Step 2 is left foot. Quick beat 2
Step 3 is right foot. Slow beat 3-4

While both are on the 3-4 of the count, they are on different feet, on1-right vs on2-left. Changing from on1 to on2 is not as simple as changing the beat you break on, you have to change what foot is doing the Slow step.
 
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NY Style: 12-34 is QSQ (S is over the 2-3). 56-78 is QSQ (S is over the 6-7).

.
QSQ-QSQ does not seem right to me because NY does not start with a quick but with a slow instead.

for some reason NY ignore to count on the first beat, even though they do step on 1 and break on 2 which adds to the confusion. NY would be better described as SQQ-SQQ.

for instance my On2 teacher does no step on the first beat (which would make sense not to count it) but breaks right away on the second beat going forward. that's more like "pause QQS, QQS"

but NY still count QQS and as restult is a beat behind on the count while 5 beat ahead of LA On1.

On1 counts every time the feet move with QQS.
 
QSQ-QSQ does not seem right to me because NY does not start with a quick but with a slow instead.

for some reason NY ignore to count on the first beat, even though they do step on 1 and break on 2 which adds to the confusion. NY would be better described as SQQ-SQQ.

for instance my On2 teacher does no step on the first beat (which would make sense not to count it) but breaks right away on the second beat going forward. that's more like "pause QQS, QQS"

but NY still count QQS and as restult is a beat behind on the count while 5 beat ahead of LA On1.

On1 counts every time the feet move with QQS.
If your on2 teacher does not step on 1 and breaks on 2 then he is doing P2 than ET2 (assuming he steps on 4 and not 4&). Which is ok (I used to do it too).

On the NY, it makes no difference if they count or not. What is important is the feet. So if they step 123 then it is QQS. SQQ would be 134 which is a break on 3 (which I also like to do sometimes).
 
granrey,

are you trolling or ignoring the fact that 99.9% of the world (that's literal and not an exaggeration) uses "on2" as shorthand for "NY on2" (or ET2/Eddie Torres on2 which some use on these forums)?
 
This one caugt my eyes ... it's on1, it's showy, but quite smooth, no hard stopping and very little spinning and self spinning, so I suppose it's not LA style. Not sure what it is. Looks like dancing on the melody. Urban on1 ? Sensual on1 ? Help

Hows about just his own style .There are lots of dancers who march to their own drumbeat, and good for them ( and us ) .
 

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