Is Kizomba just dry humping?

I find even the people who don't dance Kiz enjoy the listening and watching.
You must be joking. The music is pseudo r&b which is totally incongruous at a Latin music night, and it feels very instrusive watching people dance like that. Intrusive or just boring. Obviously people who dance it have different opinions about the music and some may even enjoy watching the dance, but for non-dancers: that's the main reason its presence has had such a negative impact on the salsa scene - the people who aren't into it find it so unappealing.
 
The 'correct' way to dance kizomba would be in its original, Angolan format: learn a few moves from watching other dancers, then dance to enjoy the music and/or socialise, without ever even considering the idea of taking lessons. And the untrained kizomba dancers are the only ones I can actually stand, or even enjoy, watching.

Of course such a concept of dance would never appeal to former salsa dancers.
 
Well ... in salsa and b/r latin, we have "cuban motion". When we - non-cubans are dancing those dances, we try to learn dancing the way latin people are moving and dancing - to the various extent, with cuban salsa being probably closer to it, xbody salsa not that close (depending again on the country) and b/r latin even further from that goal (as it is ballroom with some latin flavor).
I don't see how so-called 'x body' salsa is further removed from 'the way latin people are moving and dancing' than casino is. Both scenes are full of Latins, particularly amongst the instructors, but both are essentially a concept created due to non-Latins wanting a scene based around taking lessons.
 

vit

Son Montuno
Let's compare older with newer kizomba.
I like this one with Kwenda. It's a kind of promo with the interview, but the dancing is nice


He and Albir are very different. Kwenda is from Cape Verde, Albir is from Panama. Kwenda has even some b/room background, Albir is ex hip hop dancer. Kwenda is very spiritual person and his classes are like that, Albir is "practical" person and his classes are relaxing and funny. All of that is visible in their different way of dancing. Etc
 

vit

Son Montuno
@vit: and what do you think about it?
I REALLY liked it. Dymic dancing and nice cooperation in the couple, without overly sensual/meditative/etc parts and without typical "kizomba industry moves" (as Kwenda Lima called typical kizomba dance learned in kizomba schools where point is on the "patterns" - not much different than what happens in salsa)

However, I posted it because I tried to show that salsa and kizomba dancers can cooperate well. But it turned out that it wasn't just her trying to do some kizomba on the party, but that there are clips of her dancing kizomba even back in 2012 (although those didn't really impress me)

Didn't post it in social dancing section because some people probably wouldn't like it posted there, so we probably won't get much comments.

What's your opinion ? I'm really not that much in kizomba, as the level of it in the venue is low and actually going down further
 
What's your opinion ? I'm really not that much in kizomba, as the level of it in the venue is low and actually going down further
Well, with this video it is kind of a love&hate relationship for me. The dancing in general is rather nice and enjoyable but there are just sooo many little things that bother me or for which I have a personal distaste.

First, Moreanasso - I really don't like his dancing. He takes huge steps, I mean, his basic is just awful. His overall style looks rushed and all over the place for me. But I have to admit that I prefer smaller dancing and keeping the movement in between me and my dance partner, so maybe my personal aversion is more of my personal issue than his dancing. Due to his style of dancing I think he is butchering the second song - Gata Morena.

Tanja is an amazing and versatile dancer and it clearly isn't her first time dancing kizomba :D However, she does not move like a kizombera - her dancing has 'bachata' written all over it. That said, she looks good dancing kizomba but when I see her and imagine myself dancing kizomba with her I can not but think of all the primarily-salsa/bachata girls I danced kizomba with whom almost all had bachata/salsa response to my lead and thus felt really weird. Also I kinda think that she has a seated posture, does not straighten her legs and does not have the right curve of back/movement of bunda - as I said 'bachata'. What I definitely dislike is her left arm hanging by her side or hovering above the lead's shoulder.

I don't like the DJ. Hopefully he is just switching between style blocks, because those two songs should never go one after the other. It's also hard to not actively hate every DJ who plays that infinitely stupid siren sound.
 
@Aurel, agree about the huge steps. I don't know much about kizomba, but enough to know this is quite extreme and not very authentic. Still, good musicality overall, from the perspective of this casinero.
 

vit

Son Montuno
Thanks. It's funny that I get more valuable info about kizomba on a salsa forum than elsewhere

I agree about their movement overall. It's actually a kind of similar how I end up dancing with a few local salsa/bachata/zouk dancers that didn't attend kizomba classes - somehow it works best this way - which is actually connected with why I posted it (as dancing a kind of acceptable to salsa oriented pepole). Just that it feels considerably different than dancing with some girls that I think were good in kizomba

Yes, his steps are long and his weight transfer isn't on the beat like it is, at least I think, the way how kizomba is danced. In my local venue, problem is that people can't get it on the beat even with short steps or stepping at place, which looks like a system misunderstanding of the dance in the venue and nobody seems to be aware of that - even most of those few followers that actually dance on the beat are not aware they walk different way than other people

Dancing seated down and with bent legs is another problem, also preset in the venue, connected with the first one, as I already mentioned I think
 

vit

Son Montuno
@Aurel, agree about the huge steps. I don't know much about kizomba, but enough to know this is quite extreme and not very authentic. Still, good musicality overall, from the perspective of this casinero.
Question of authenticity is as tricky as in casino or salsa. As Kwenda Lima explained, kizomba is actually the way how people in Angola learned to dance ballroom (serving in the houses of their masters). So we have 2 "authentic things" to talk about - white way of movemet and black way of movement mixed. I don't see why the "black part" should get more credit than the "white part" or the opposite (the same for casino).
 
Question of authenticity is as tricky as in casino or salsa. As Kwenda Lima explained, kizomba is actually the way how people in Angola learned to dance ballroom (serving in the houses of their masters). So we have 2 "authentic things" to talk about - white way of movemet and black way of movement mixed. I don't see why the "black part" should get more credit than the "white part" or the opposite (the same for casino).
An Angolan guy once explained to me that it's based on semba and that you shouldn't learn kizomba without learning semba along side with it. I have no idea if it's true or not, but that's as close to the source as I've come and so I tend to believe it.

 
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vit

Son Montuno
Yes, it is true - semba is older, kizomba is only a few decades old ... it is a result of long and complex process that probably started when white colonizers arrived there ... I just have a problem with the word authentic, as nothing is really authentic in dancing
 
An Angolan guy once explained to me that it's based on semba and that you shouldn't learn kizomba without learning semba along side with it. I have no idea if it's true or not, but that's as close to the source as I've come and so I tend to believe it.
... I just have a problem with the word authentic, as nothing is really authentic in dancing
oh, yes, authenticity... the bane of all dance purists :p;) I just love when people are arguing if this or that is authentic. It's especially amusing from the viewpoint of a social dancer as at the end of the day I will still go to the local venue and dance with the local dancers (who mostly have no idea about music structure, don't care for the music or musicality and don't give a crap about the dance history) who all dance for better or worse the local version of the dance that is inevitably modified by the local teachers who try to teach afro/latin dancing to a bunch of white (I live in central Europe) office-rats in their thirties.
 
Well, with this video it is kind of a love&hate relationship for me. The dancing in general is rather nice and enjoyable but there are just sooo many little things that bother me or for which I have a personal distaste.
I'll comment some as well if you don't mind, as a fellow kizombie :p

I didn't like it much, for many of the same reasons as you. Imo this is more representative of the French urban kiz style, which I'm not much of a fan of. Quite far removed from the roots, the jerkier moves Moreanasso does are typical, even if his technique is sloppy as hell.

Isabel and Felicien may be the most famous couple who dance urban kiz and are obviously much better:


First, Moreanasso - I really don't like his dancing. He takes huge steps, I mean, his basic is just awful. His overall style looks rushed and all over the place for me. But I have to admit that I prefer smaller dancing and keeping the movement in between me and my dance partner, so maybe my personal aversion is more of my personal issue than his dancing. Due to his style of dancing I think he is butchering the second song - Gata Morena.
I don't think it's a personal style thing at all. Granted, urban kiz movements may be slightly bigger, but his basic and steps are still goddamn awful.


Tanja is an amazing and versatile dancer and it clearly isn't her first time dancing kizomba :D However, she does not move like a kizombera - her dancing has 'bachata' written all over it.
All of this.
 

vit

Son Montuno
I didn't like it much, for many of the same reasons as you. Imo this is more representative of the French urban kiz style, which I'm not much of a fan of. Quite far removed from the roots, the jerkier moves Moreanasso does are typical, even if his technique is sloppy as hell.
Is he a representative of french kizomba ? I was on Enah & Carol workshop last year, it looked considerably different to me, much more complex. Nobody really liked it I think (not to mention the music). Or this urban kizomba is further divided into more complex styles (like Enah) and less complex (like Felicien, Albir)

Anyway, I think that sloppy technique isn't the right word. For me, sloppy technique is something that isn't working well, which I think isn't the case here - he can move and his leading is ok, just that it is different than in more traditional kizomba
 
"representative of french kizomba" is probably not very correct, no...seems to me like individual teachers do wildly varying things anyway, much less standardization of technique than in e.g. salsa.

I think we agree so not too interesting to discuss semantics here imo. His fundamentals are bad but I agree that he's able to lead her without many issues.
 

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