dancing etiquette

Jag75

Son Montuno
#41
Ok I think some context is needed here. I'm referring to salsa social events where the dancers are actual salsa dancers, and not random "latin parties" where most dancers only know cumbia and reggaeton.
 
#42
Ok I think some context is needed here. I'm referring to salsa social events where the dancers are actual salsa dancers, and not random "latin parties" where most dancers only know cumbia and reggaeton.
actually the context was explained clearly on first post. I described how is done in Dominican and Canada. I also mentioned Etiquette. Ettiquete and rules are not the same thing.

I even ended the post with :
"How is done in your scene?"

However, you seemed very concerned that asking permission somehow implied women are men's property or so. Which is totally understandable to be taken that way.

While it might seem that way. it's actually not the case. Asking permission on that scene is ettiquete, it has very little to do with macho behaviour.

For instance, in Canada, I can recall few occasions in which women saying that to my woman as soon as we arrive (the greting portion) at the dance studio or club: "I hope you let me dance with him at least one song :)". she always say: "sure, anytime"

at least on my local scene women outnumber men and women can be long time waiting for a guy to dance any given night.

Ettiquete and rules are different things.

Ettiquete is more about being polite, no rude, avoid misunderstandings, etc

Another thing in Canada. When you are in a restaurant you tipically tip the waiter. In Dominican we don't tip. Notice, there is no rule you have to tip in Canada, but ettiquete tells you, you must tip if the service was good.
 
#43
Another thing in Canada. When you are in a restaurant you tipically tip the waiter. In Dominican we don't tip.

Notice, there is no rule you have to tip in Canada, but ettiquete tells you, you must tip if the service was good.
The word "Tip " is an acronym meaning.." To insure prompt service ".. i.e. TIPS.. nothing do with ettiquete .
 
#44
I keep hearing this line again and again. It depends on a perspective and context. The dynamic only arises because a man has to do the asking. If the roles were reversed and the women had to do the asking the etiquette still would be similar. Then would you say man is not anyone's property. Whether man or woman, when you are asking someone who is part of group or pair, it is simply respectful to acknowledge the other person/people.
Well, here is what I do as a woman when I want to ask a man who is sitting next to his girlfriend/wife and appears to be only dancing with her (this usually only happens in Latin countries or Latin clubs, as at socials and festivals almost no one is only dancing with their partner/spouse):

Approach the couple. Smile at both, in no particular order, but probably first at the guy and then at the woman. Say Hi to both. Ask the guy to dance, and then immediately look at the woman and smile (but I don't say anything to her). Guy usually says yes and the woman smiles back at me. I like this approach because I am directing my asking towards the actual person I want to dance with, not his partner (because indeed he is free to do whatever he wants), but I am also acknowledging his partner by smiling at her, because it would be rude to pretend she is not there when she is sitting right there next to him.

So, I don't see any reason men could not follow this approach as well (which would mean skipping the patriarchal 'Is it ok if I dance with her?' question to the woman's partner).

PS: I will admit that in certain, extremely traditional places in certain Latin countries, men can be very patriarchal (the kind of places where knife or machete fights erupt when men get jealous) so as a man, if you want to make sure you won't get a negative reaction in these kinds of places, you really need to use the traditional patriarchal approach of asking permission from the man first, especially with older couples. But in my experience these places are few and far between nowadays (especially among the younger generations), and most salsa dancers will not ever get to dance there.
 
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#45
The word "Tip " is an acronym meaning.." To insure prompt service ".. i.e. TIPS.. nothing do with ettiquete .
you can't ensure good service as the tip is after the service was provided and there is no rule (or obligation) of agrement that you have to tip, neither the percentage of tip.

If to get a good service, I have to tip, I don't return to that place.

the first time I went to a restaurant in Canada. it was also the first time using me using a credit card in Canada.

when I swiped my credit card. the machine was asking to select Tip.

I have no idea what was and I asked the waitress: " what is T.I.P.?".

she got offended as she thought I did not want to tip. my English skills were very rough plus hers as well. I did not pay tip, I thought it was a Tax or Scam since I was an immigrant not knowing much......

Tip is more like a mean to say: "i was happy with your goods and services provided"

If I don't tip. means I'm not happy.

Some people see tip as a way to save money when the goods and services were bad (if you consider the full services to include the tip, in this case you would save OR penalize by not giving tip)
 
#46
Well, here is what I do as a woman when I want to ask a man who is sitting next to his girlfriend/wife and appears to be only dancing with her (this usually only happens in Latin countries or Latin clubs, as at socials and festivals almost no one is only dancing with their partner/spouse):

Approach the couple. Smile at both, in no particular order, but probably first at the guy and then at the woman. Say Hi to both. Ask the guy to dance, and then immediately look at the woman and smile (but I don't say anything to her). Guy usually says yes and the woman smiles back at me. I like this approach because I am directing my asking towards the actual person I want to dance with, not his partner (because indeed he is free to do whatever he wants), but I am also acknowledging his partner by smiling at her, because it would be rude to pretend she is not there when she is sitting right there next to him.

So, I don't see any reason men could not follow this approach as well (which would mean skipping the patriarchal 'Is it ok if I dance with her?' question to the woman's partner).

PS: I will admit that in certain, extremely traditional places in certain Latin countries, men can be very patriarchal (the kind of places where knife or machete fights erupt when men get jealous) so as a man, if you want to make sure you won't get a negative reaction in these kinds of places, you really need to use the traditional patriarchal approach of asking permission from the man first, especially with older couples. But in my experience these places are few and far between nowadays (especially among the younger generations), and most salsa dancers will not ever get to dance there.
I don't think is a lot about patriarky. I think is like dancing places mean different things.

When people go dancing in Latin America, I see it very similar to when people go for coffee in Canada......

if you invite your date, friend (s), co-worker (s) for coffee at Tim Hortons or Starbucks. It typically means you will go to a place where other people are also drinking coffee and talking but most likely is expected, these people will have none or very little interaction with you. However, there is no rule prohibiting that.

Imagine, your date or your friend found another person there and this person ask her or him: "hey come and sit on my table to drink coffee". Totally ignoring the other person (in this case you) or you go to the bathroom and you don't find your friend on the table but in another table drinking coffee with someone else....

things would be very different if the other person says: "hey I'm gonna pull mike to my table for a bit, I'll bring him back".

This does not mean you own Mike.....

other samples when you go skating, skying and hiking. it's not expected too much interaction with other people aside from the group, neither rules prohibiting it.

I find people in North America see salsa social events as activities in which constant mingling is expected like and Orgy or free spirits (for lack of better word).
 
#47
Even at salsa parties, we do not have such things like hookups. Only if a guy is interested in a girl, he can show his interest. I am not talking about nightclubs now it is a different topic. But in salsa environment, Russian guys treat Russian ladies with great respect as well as Ukranian guys treat Ukranian ladies. It works in both ways. We treat every man with respect if he respects us and he looks intelligent and strong.
My sweet summer child..
 
#49
But in salsa environment, Russian guys treat Russian ladies with great respect as well as Ukranian guys treat Ukranian ladies. It works in both ways. We treat every man with respect if he respects us and he looks intelligent and strong.
So, I'll ask the question everyone is curious about :p What do you do with the men who look weak and not intelligent?
 
#52
The opposing viewpoints in this discussion are somewhat pointless and reveal a lack of cultural understanding on both sides.

In non-Latin countries/venues, the main goal of people who go to salsa parties is dancing. Other stuff like talking and socializing is secondary to the main goal of dancing.

In Latin countries/venues, the main goal of people who go to Latin music venues is socializing (with friends, spouse, etc.) and/or listening to live music. Dancing is secondary and is meant to enable the main goal of socializing or listening to live music (or, alternatively, meeting romantic partners).

So, it follows that all the discussions with a Latin saying non-Latin dance venues are like non-stop dance orgies, and a non-Latin complaining that people from Latin venues are sitting around with friends/spouse (thus requiring special 'permission requests' from other dancers) instead of dancing and mingling more, are pointless because we are talking about two very different sets of circumstances. And neither is 'better' than the other.
 
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#54
you can't ensure good service as the tip is after the service was provided a
Originally, the "tip" was given BEFORE the service was done. Look at old 30/40s movies and you will see occasions where the customer tips to get a good table. I worked for an owner many years ago who always tipped the waitress before he got his order .
Think about it, would you NOT provide good service to someone who trusted your patronage by tipping before ? .
 
#57
I like her virgin. ;) But in general, ladies use salsa for hookups everywhere. Selection criteria might differ, and etiquette of course. Most people might not notice, because statistics say man are interested in something like 10% of women and women in 10% of men (okcupid or match had blogs on their research, actual numbers are different).
I think you got the male interest number wrong...did you mean to say 90%? :p
 
#59
Originally, the "tip" was given BEFORE the service was done. Look at old 30/40s movies and you will see occasions where the customer tips to get a good table. I worked for an owner many years ago who always tipped the waitress before he got his order .
Think about it, would you NOT provide good service to someone who trusted your patronage by tipping before ? .
Forgot to add.. the word " Insure " means literally to guard against poor service. Another e.g. "tips " at a racecourse are given BEFORE the race, not after !...:rolleyes:
 
#60
Yeah. Check the blog. In general men are nicer to women. I've seen other research with similar results.
Of course, humans are not exempt from the general evolutionary principle that female eggs are rare and priceless while male sperm are plentiful and cheap. (Evolutionary biology is enlightening, as it explains all the "Whys" of 'mating strategies' :) )
 
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