The Methodology of Your No's

Discussion in 'Just Dance' started by Brownskin818, Aug 21, 2008.

  1. Brownskin818

    Brownskin818 Shine Officer

    I thought there was an earlier thread on something like this, but I couldn't find it. The search kept excluding my key words.

    So when do you say no? When is it legit? Not so legit?

    When I'm dead tired: I'll say no
    When you've hurt me before: I'll say no
    When you have body odor: I'll say no
    (All legit in my book)

    When you're an un-fun offbeater: I'll try to avoid you so that you can't ask, or give off signals of not wanting to dance so that you don't ask. But if you do manage to ask, I'll say yes. :doh:
    When you're a fun offbeater: I'll say yes without all the avoidance.
    When I'm in the mood for _____ and you're _____: I'll avoid and give off negative signals. Then say yes if actually asked.
    When I don't particularly like dancing with you, but you're not a danger or anything: Avoid. Negative signals. Yes.
    (I call these my less-than-legit reasons and I sometimes wish I could just say no)

    When I've been drinking and a legit no is in order: I'll say no.
    When I've been drinking and a not-so-legit no is in order: I'll say no.

    I should probably just drink more. :rolleyes: *snicker*

    So how do you ladies handle your not-so-legit inclinations to turn down? Do you even have such a gray area?
  2. naturallove

    naturallove Sonero

    Well..I generally don't say no to guys, simply because I was always the feminist of my scene. ;) I'm usually the one doing the asking, so between my moving around to stalk for my next dance or moving away from someone I really don't want to ask me (rare, and reasons follow) I don't usually have to say no. In fact, at my last salsa event, I was stunned at how many requests I got. (I gotta wear the hot little dresses more often!) I figure my salsa karma will be good for dancing with everybody and I'll improve!

    Gray areas: I don't like an overly strong lead but I'll usually dance with them (I them my "gotta get my core right" leads). And I feel ya on the off-beaters but they need love (and a lil' backleading) too. However, the body odor thing is one that I draw the line at at. There's one little guy that I've had to just out and out say no to because I smell like cigarette smoke when I dance with him. That #$#$ gets into your pores, your clothes, and transfers onto your dance partners--and I can't stand it. There's also another funky offender that had me smelling like his pit sweat after a party. (Coincidentally, another salsera on message board reported a similar experience at the same party...) Not cool.

    So, in the funk factor cases, I just have to say no, I'm tired (which I usually am). And that means sitting out that dance, even if the salsa god you've been dying to dance with asks you in the next 5 seconds to hit the floor. It's only polite.
  3. la_gringa

    la_gringa Tumbao

    i think this is the epistemology of your no's, but that's just me being a dork.

    my reasons are similar. i say yes most of the time, and i also ask a fair amount. when i do say no, however:

    reasons about myself: too tired, don't like song, need to cool off, need to pace self (this is a new thing for me, and it's working.) Prefer to socialize at that particular moment.

    reasons about leader: injurious, malodorous, intoxicated, fatal flaw in dance ability or style. Hardly ever reject a first dance with a new face unless there is hard evidence of one or more of the above.

    reasons about neither: unfavorable venue conditions (floor, temp, too crowded, etc.)
  4. Fundance

    Fundance Changui

    Hey, you can say 'no' anytime you want to. If there's a fair reason, I'd give the reason. If you'd be happy enough to dance later, say so. If not, just give a sweet 'no' without a reason and the other person should take the hint and not ask again (but you can always ask them).

    I think people make too much agony out of this!
  5. MacMoto

    MacMoto Administrator Staff Member

    When I'm dead tired: I'll say no
    I don't think I've ever turned anyone down because I'm tired... I'm known as the duracell bunny of salsa :lol:

    When you've hurt me before: I'll say no
    Avoid. Yes if asked. Sometimes I get better at dancing with this type of leader after a few attempts - then I'll say yes.

    When you have body odor: I'll say no
    I'll say yes. Actually, some of my fave leaders have body odour... :sigh:

    When you're an un-fun offbeater: I'll try to avoid you so that you can't ask, or give off signals of not wanting to dance so that you don't ask. But if you do manage to ask, I'll say yes. :doh:
    Ditto usually (avoid - yes if asked). Depending on the song, I'll sometimes say "not this one" and ask later.

    When you're a fun offbeater: I'll say yes without all the avoidance.

    Ditto usually (again, there have been "not this one" occasions).

    When I'm in the mood for _____ and you're _____: I'll avoid and give off negative signals. Then say yes if actually asked.
    When I'm in the mood for something specific, I go ask the right person before anyone has a chance to ask me. If I'm intercepted, then I'll say yes.*

    When I don't particularly like dancing with you, but you're not a danger or anything: Avoid. Negative signals. Yes.

    I'll say yes - if you catch me.*

    When I've been drinking and a legit no is in order: I'll say no.
    When I've been drinking and a not-so-legit no is in order: I'll say no.

    N/A - I don't drink when I dance. Except on my last birthday, when I was given a shot of tequila after my b-day dance. Dancing after that was - interesting :roll:

    * Generally speaking, I don't usually get into a situation where I need to contemplate saying no since I do the asking most of the time. In the rare times when I'm in the mood for waiting to be asked, I don't say no - but I have done some evasive manoeuvres :p
  6. vin

    vin Sonero

    Fine line to be drawn . . .
    Those that say no and mean "I hope he asks again later" and those that say no and mean "I hope he gets the hint".

    For me, it usually takes a a lot of no's over a period of several times out before I decide I will not ask her again. Basically ladies, if you want me to stop asking you will have to be committed to that no.

    come to think of it, that's my strategy with dating as well. Perhaps that is why my love life is in the crapper.
  7. crazygirl

    crazygirl Rhythm Deputy

    I have to be truly exhausted to say no (you know sort of starting to slur my words) but I'm rubbish at saying no so generally I have usually just danced that one more dance than I should have anyway before making a run for the exit to avoid further embarrassment (plus risking a new leader putting me on his blacklist due to my slow feet).

    Therefore I really have to rely on avoidance techniques because I cannot say no. Only exception to this is the truly smelly ones (why are they always the ones who also insist on tucking you under their armpits on a regular basis and transferring the smell to my arms/shoulders -yuck). I will usually have urgent need to run to loo if they catch me and then keep an eye out for rest of evening so don't get caught again.
  8. crazygirl

    crazygirl Rhythm Deputy

  9. Fundance

    Fundance Changui

    I really have never seen this 'playing hard to get' thing at dance venues. I dance salsa several times a week, for over six years. Nearly everybody's there to dance. There are people you know you want to dance with, people you know you don't want to dance with (but might feel obliged to, occasionally), and people you don't know. To avoid misunderstanding and disappointment it's far better to apply those simple courtesies. They work both ways round, man asking woman, woman asking man.

    If you don't want to dance right now but might later, say so. They won't be hurt and can ask again. If you don't want to dance with them, period, just say no. Any future initiative then lies with you. You could even say 'when I'm ready, I'll ask you, meanwhile don't press me.'

    These simple responses make life so much easier for both:

    - ask whom you like.
    - if you're asked, accept
    - if they say no with a good and true reason, or indicate you can ask again, ask again later.
    - if they say no without a good reason, or just no, don't ask them again: that's what they want.
    - if they later ask you, accept; don't be silly about it. You wanted to dance with them; now's your chance.
    - if you don't want to dance with them at all, just say no (nicely but with no reason). They should avoid asking you again - but if you change your mind, you should ask them.

    Sure, there are nuances. But this always works. There are plenty of partners to dance with. And who wants to dance with someone who doesn't really want to dance with you?
  10. GRx

    GRx Sonero

    If you say no because you are tired or whatever excuse, don't dance with someone else you prefer or who is better for the duration of that song. This goes for both guys and girls.

    Unless you make it clear and tell the original person who asked you "no, I don't ever want to dance with you"
  11. lolita

    lolita Capitán Del Estilo

    I'll say a straight no if :
    You've tried to correct me on the dance floor before.
    Your ego is bigger than the room.
    You dance with me because I make you look good and/or you want to show off.
    You know I dance on1/on2, and I told you like 20 times and you still do it your way so we end up looking and feeling like a disaster.
    You are a creep.

    My no's would be followed by a yes or asking later if:
    You are offbeat but you're fun
    You're a beginner who loves to dance and wants to improve
    you're a woman.
  12. RugKutta

    RugKutta Tumbao

    I agree, you can't go too far wrong by these guidelines. Of course, there are always exceptions since not everybody thinks alike. I've matured to the point where "no"s don't bother me nearly as much, but it can still be annoying given the wrong circumstance. I've made these rules for myself to maximize my enjoyment:

    - If I get a plain "no", I don't ask again until the next time I see her.
    - If I get a no that in some way implies that she'd say yes later ("Not right now, maybe later?", "Give me a second/minute/song", etc.) I ask again later, if I get around to her again (this is determined by how slow it is that night, how often I get to dance w/ her, how bad I want to dance w/ her, ec.)
    - If I do ask you again, and I get a "not yes", I don't ask again until the next time I see you (nothing personal, I just had to realize that there's no reason to chase any one person when I have many other options. Of course, sometimes I have to keep reminding myself of my own rules. I'm a very undisciplined person...)
    - If I get repeated "no"s or "not yes"s over a long period of time (every time or every other time I see you), I put you on the "she doesn't want to dance with me" list, and won't waste my time asking.

    I had to make guidelines for myself back over time to help keep myself from letting rejections get the best of me. My recovery time from getting a "no" has been reduced to about less than about .25 seconds, but I still keep those rules to avoid wasting time. I'm the type that likes to dance w/ as many as possible and rarely sits down unless I'm dead tired, so the less time I spend on empty requests, the better.
  13. Brownskin818

    Brownskin818 Shine Officer

    epistemology, eh? im 0-2 then. you shoulda seen the original word i thought to use. te he.

    but then you might get a reputation! then when u hit a bad night and no ones around that u want to dance with, all of a sudden the ones u said no to look appealing, but they begrudge u for not giving them the time of day earlier :rolleyes:. plus, dancing really is a social thing for many if not most folks. even though *eye* look at is as a workout, and would like to decline a guy because he wont give me the workout i want to a particular song, explaining that unfortunately wouldnt come off well. :(
  14. Brownskin818

    Brownskin818 Shine Officer

    im usually in ask-o-manic mode when i dance (like some of you gals have mentioned), but my scene seems to be changing a bit on me. my favs arent out as much as they used to be. so the asking or the rounds id usually make to get to them arent happening. and ive found myself sitting out more than id like, hence subject to the increased potential of being asked.

    often times id prefer to groove by myself by the stage when theres a band... yet that too often gets interpreted as an invite to be asked. not sure how to get around that one.
  15. Fundance

    Fundance Changui

    ... well, that's when you ask them. If they're not silly, they'll accept. If they say no, ball's back in their court.

    Anyway, you would have factored that in when you took the risk of saying no before....
  16. I say no to one of the local salsa perverts, without explanation, and I will accept a dance with someone else for the same song just because he is such a perv. I'm not going to sacrifice my dance just to be polite, because *he* is not polite or gentlemanly.

    I say no to my dance class people if we've gone out to a club. I just want to dance with new people, not to mention that the guys in class who go out are allllll offbeat when they go out because the teacher isn't there to keep them in line. I feel bad saying no, but told them that they need to go ask other girls and let me dance with new people, see you in class.
  17. MacMoto

    MacMoto Administrator Staff Member

    This is totally legit as far as I'm concerned. It's impolite to give an excuse like "I'm sitting this song out because I'm tired" then dance with someone else; if you are saying no because you don't *ever* want to dance with the guy, it doesn't matter if he puts you on his blacklist for being impolite, does it?

    In this situation I'd say yes, unless the guys get clingy on me and keep coming back to me for more dances. I might even ask them myself if it looks like they are not getting any dances from other girls. It's in my interest too to help these guys get some dancefloor time so that they can practise and get better - good leaders don't grow on trees, after all.
  18. to clarify, i don't say no to my classmates all the time, just when they get to be klingons. but great point, macmoto, good leaders *don't* grow on trees, not that i can help them in any way..
  19. KP-salsa

    KP-salsa Shine Officer

    It's always legit if you say no and mean no. If you say no and mean I hope he's going to come back and ask me again, it when it's not legit.
  20. noobster

    noobster Pattern Police

    I've never gotten into the habit of asking people for dances.

    At the SF Congress last year I decided I was going to be more proactive, but I was totally paralyzed by the available choices. I'd try and watch the guys dancing to see which one I might want to ask, but I took so long to decide that I'd get asked by someone else long before I ever got around to asking any of the ones I'd been watching.

    I say no very rarely. It's pretty much

    - if he's hurt me before (usually multiple times as I tend to give people 2nd and 3rd chances as they develop)

    - if I already changed my shoes and am heading out the door

    - if two people ask at the same time and I have to pick one

    But although I almost always do say yes, I really don't feel like there should be some kind of obligation to say yes. Askers can ask whom they want for any reason or no reason, so askees should be entirely free to accept or reject for any reason or no reason.

    And honestly I think the no-dancing-with-someone-else-after-rejection is bogus. It doesn't come up so much for me because I so rarely say no, but e.g. if the girl is beelining for her favorite leader for her favorite song and some arm-yanker gets in her way and asks for a dance, I don't see why she should have to pass on a great dance just to spare the arm-yanker's feelings.

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