Johnny Vasquez' Message To LA

Discussion in 'Just Dance' started by opm1s6, Oct 3, 2017.

  1. opm1s6

    opm1s6 Sabor Ambassador



    I'd like to get your opinion on how the LA scene has changed this last five years. Clearly his message can be applied to a lot of the top dance cities and their dance companies but in particular, I feel like there has been a lot of change in LA...and I don't even live there. What's been going on?
     
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  2. granrey

    granrey Son Montuno

    He is right. In my city they market on2 as advanced salsa...

    Salsa outside Latin America seems to be a business instead of an art form. Dancing has a total different meaning.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2017
  3. Chris_Yannick

    Chris_Yannick Rhythm Deputy

    From what he's saying, sounds like people are dancing more On2, Bachata, Kizomba, etc... in LA.

    The salsa landscape is changing everywhere. What he's expressing (people looking down at others' dancing styles, people dancing more Bachata/Kizomba, and being competitive) is prevalent in many countries.

    Also, 10 years is a long time to come back to a scene and expect it to be the same. I've been away from my home country for 4 years and every time I come back, I feel like I'm on an alien planet. Oh, and people don't greet me either..lol. But it's expected. I live in a different country and have established firmer dancing roots there. But when I come back home, I don't expect fanfare.

    I'm not really sure if Johnny is genuinely talking about love and co-operation in the dance scene or if he's just upset that he's not as famous in LA as he once was.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2017
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  4. terence

    terence Maestro 'Descarga' Cachao

    " Fame " is fleeting..
     
  5. MAMBO_CEC

    MAMBO_CEC Sabor Ambassador

    Spot on comment!! The scene has evolved. The funny thing though, is that his classes at the Congresses he attends here (Seattle and LA) are always packed, so there does seem to be still a market for his 'style'. I do agree with him however that it's a lot more competitive and some aspect of the fun element has gone..there are way too many celebrity wannabees.
     
  6. LarsM

    LarsM Tumbao

    Disagree that you should auto-respect all new trends in dance. Sorry, I won't accept sensual bachata as a good thing no matter what - I find everything about it despicable. The music, the moves, the false/overdone dramatic faces - ain't buying!
     
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  7. dav7802

    dav7802 Changui

    I live in LA and see a little bit of what he is saying. There are some people here who dance on2 and think it is above on1. But there are a lot of people who don't. (I see people doing this online in other cities also.) Perhaps he was calling out some of those people. To me it is funny when someone says on2 is to the rhythm and on1 is to melody. For me it depends on the song. Some songs I feel the rhythm better on1 and some on2 but just because I feel it a certain way doesn't mean another dancer may feel it the opposite. I think that is what he is saying, let dancers feel the rhythm the way they want to and don't think your way is better.

    FYI. When Eddie Torres came here and taught a workshop he had a similar speech. He was teaching on2 but basically said that it wasn't any better than on1. To have fun dancing, keep the timing and you can dance on whatever number you want. lol.

    Most of the teachers here still teach on1. (some teach both) There are certain teachers who do only on2 and if you want to learn on2, you go to those teachers. If you go to a club most everyone dances on1. The club lessons before are most always on1 (unless it is one of on2 teachers). Some on2 dancers from NY moved here and teach on2 and there is a Cali Columbia teacher that moved here and teaches that fast step style also. There are organized on2 events where most of the people dance on2.
     
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  8. vit

    vit El Sabroso de Conguero

    I was on Albir Rojas kizomba class about 3 years ago and he was telling similar things about traditional kizomba (or at least his version of it) and french kizomba, urban kiz or whatever ...

    Basically, problem is that it evolved into various styles and people dancing different style are unable to have satisfactory dance with the partner dancing another style, and in addition to that, they become proud of dancing their style which is of course better than other styles, much more musical, much more connected with rhytm, much more connected with the melody, much more correct in any possible sense ... and as mentioned by JV, they became more competitive, so there are more competitions etc ...

    Not much different than with any other thing you can buy on the market, for instance people are fans of particular car makers, phone makers or whatever makers ... so actual usability of the car and phone is not very important, but most important is than by buying it your show other people your life style and of course superiority over other people who are not smart enough to buy the best thing or can't afford it ... so it can't be any different with "dance makers", where you buy particular type of salsa, kizomba, bachata, zouk, wcs, tango, ballroom ... currently available on the market
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2017
  9. terence

    terence Maestro 'Descarga' Cachao

    I think there is some confusion here ( again ) between MUSICAL style and DANCE style. How one personally dances is simply a reflection of HOW one dances to a given song ,whether it be on ANY beat of ones choice.
    .
    The transition to "1" came about very late in the old genre with the emergence of the social stratas rebirth with Salsa, and in my opinion was to make teaching for the many , a simpler passage dance wise into the new genre .

    The "2" was to signify and acknowledge the 2nd and 4 th beats in the music ( ala Clave ) hence the break on "2" .
    The existence of 2 break points living side by side I guess in a way, may not be a bad thing .Purists may pick what they believe to be more relevant from a music standpoint, and that is their choice .

    Personally I have danced/taught on 1, 2 and 3..( and have introduced my students accordingly )..
     
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  10. elanimal

    elanimal Tumbao

    Do you like to dance on 3? What would be your reason for dancing on 3, and teaching students on 3? Genuinely curious about this.
     
  11. terence

    terence Maestro 'Descarga' Cachao

    Because I danced with many P.Ricans where 3 is common. Do I like to dance on 3 ? depends upon my partner and my mood. I have no pre planned format when I dance. I have been asked more times than I can remember ( in clubs ) what did I just dance, and I really seldom have no answer .I have been typed as PR/'Cuban and even Brasilian in latin clubs, and the only reason is I believe, is my dance style..

    True story; In one of my fave clubs in tampa I had danced with this lady for 2/3 years She was PR, when one nite she said " I just found out you were not a latino". I did always have a good tan and dark hair ( my reason ! :rolleyes: )

    Ladies need to be equipped for ALL dance occasions hence the variety . A "rounded " student is rare !!
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2017
  12. Smejmoon

    Smejmoon El Sabroso de Conguero

    Sounds like Eddie Torres to me, and I agree with much of the statements.
     
  13. UchimaSalsa

    UchimaSalsa Son Montuno

    I also heard Eddie Torres with same same speech.
    The all thing is a big "marketing" trick launched by instructors who wanted to legitimate their teaching and justify the fact that they could not dance anything else.
    If i only know how to cook pasta I will claim rice is unhealthy. If I'm a real chef and know how to extract the best of any ingredient I'll be able to please my guests with anything and won't have to justify why i cook pasta tonight because I know tomorrow I'll cook rice. The other issue are the fools that follow those instructors without even trying to think by themselves and get an interest to other styles.
    Each time I hear pepole w*nking (sorry that's the best word to describe it) about this on1/on2 bs "you are more connected to the music blabla", I realize later that they actually have no sense of rhythm at all, nothing to do with on1 or on2. They would be lost in a zumba class.
    This is not something specific to salsa it happen in other activities as well. When brasilian ju-jitsu arise, its adept started to pint out how lame or inefficient were original ju-jitsu from Japan or Judo.
    When mma arise they said boxing, muay thai or karate was lame, boring, blabla.
    Same applied when inline skating took other the old quad roller skating. Now you see both adepts training together in the park or strolling in the city.
     
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  14. vit

    vit El Sabroso de Conguero

    It's fair to point out that some people are really passionate about what they do and try to transfer their passion to students, in believe they do the right thing. However, nobody can escape rules of the market

    For instance, a few years ago Kwenda Lima, a "kizomba guru" was in my venue and lectured a few classes on local kizomba workshops. He shown great passion about kizomba, african people, their sad history, traditional music and expressed dislike to "kizomba industry" as he named it

    However he shown passion to money as well, charging 4000 EUR from the organizer for those 3 or 4 classes that day where he essentially taught nothing
     
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  15. MAMBO_CEC

    MAMBO_CEC Sabor Ambassador

    So I am curious, what do you dance on?
     
  16. UchimaSalsa

    UchimaSalsa Son Montuno

    I always wondered how much people charge for workshop. Does transportation and accommodation come on top of this?
    Anyway that's his job and despite that he is a very good and inspirational dancer he actually one of the guys who manage to created a image around himself and market it. No one works for free.

    On1, on2(i would like to dance it more but need to find a class with time compatibility and good instructors), chacha, cuban (casino and afro), bachata, kizomba. I'm not trying to be the master in all style but I have fun dancing them and try to discover and improve. I still haven't find any interest in brasilian zouk, i just don't feel it, at least for now.
    I'm one of those guy who doesn't know what workshop to choose at a congresses and hard to catch because always on the wrong dancefloor. :D
     
  17. vit

    vit El Sabroso de Conguero

    He had to pay transportation from nearby congress previous week I suppose, something like 100 EUR max I suppose, while he was accomodated by the organizer. And of course, it was tax free money ...
     
  18. opm1s6

    opm1s6 Sabor Ambassador

    This thread wasn't about the legitimacy of on1 or on2 or whether you think it's bs. You're falling into the same trap as someone who argues one is better than the other. Respect people's choices to dance as they wish.

    This thread was about getting an understanding of how the LA dance scene has changed in the last 10 years:

    - What dance companies have popped up in LA?
    - What dance teachers have moved to LA?
    - What socials specialize in on2?
    - LA has always been heavily focused on competitions? Has this really changed?
    - How has this changed the dance experience in the social scene?
     
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  19. granrey

    granrey Son Montuno

    I cannot get much of that from the video.

    When he refers to competition it seems to me he was reffering more to people competing between themselves and also about On1vsOn2 to the point that some people did not even talk to him because he was teaching On1 and some people that went to his workshop left cause they notice he was teaching On1 (because they think the moves are not applicable to On2).

    He also refered a bit about the competition in the business side of things, dancing. etc.

    He also refers that people see dancing On1 wrong or retro, etc.

    In summary. He tries to say you can dance On1 or On2 with NY style or LA style as your choice and Salsa is not meant to compete but more to enjoy. The business side of things is dividing the community.
     
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  20. Dissonant Harmony

    Dissonant Harmony Rhythm Deputy

    I am a melody-person, and On3 (many times) goes very 'natively' with the way I feel the music.
    This is, of course, no rule, and I may dance On1 or On2, depends on the song (or even on the specific section of a song), but in general, On3 has become my favorite.
     
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