If It's True... Then It Might Be Sad!

Discussion in 'Just Dance' started by lolita, Dec 17, 2008.

  1. lolita

    lolita Capitán Del Estilo

    A fellow salsero who happens to be visiting from Egypt and I had a very interesting conversation last night after over drinks. So I am not entirely sure if what we've said was our true prespective or just the booze.

    So, we started talking about all the weird salsa moments, dances, dancers, attitudes, styles, everything... Only to be buzzed by what he said last: Well it is what it is, good looking salseras are not great dancers because they rely mostly on their looks... Salseras who are average looking are rated better on a dance scale because they need to emphasise on their technique/style to compensate for the looks.

    I was completely reluctant to his supposition but when he mentioned names(local and international ones) he made a point which got me even madder.

    What do you guys think of that?
     
    #1
  2. vin

    vin Sonero

    Not necessarily true. One could take the other approach and state that good looking women get more encouragement early on and thus become better dancers.

    Once the bug hits that other factors don't really matter. Some of the best dancers I know happen to also be very physically attractive.
     
  3. AguaDulce

    AguaDulce Pattern Police

    Perhaps he was talking about his local scene? The same type of generalization has been made about women in bed. When you see beautiful salseras like Magna, Emily, Griselle, Ana, etc., you realize how silly this generalization is.
     
  4. GForce85

    GForce85 Rhythm Deputy

    Disagree. There are far too many factors that go into determining how good dancers are to imply that looks are what decide it. What about base talent? What about commitment? What about scene strength? Instructor strength? Plus I'd argue that if you hold everything else constant and consider just looks, the good looking salseras probably get better faster than the average looking ones. The reason: they get more dances and therefore more opportunities to practice. I can see what he's trying to say if he's referring to a possible complacency in more attractive follows, but even then the fact that some get complacent doesn't mean that none of them end up being better than average/bad looking ones. Basically the only thing that looks affect is the number of dances a lady gets, so in the beginning the good looking ones can potentially improve faster than everyone else assuming they aren't complacent (furthermore, good looking ones with great talent can potentially improve faster than everyone else even if they are complacent). At a certain point, however, looks are minimized as a factor and those other things I mentioned in the beginning play a much larger role.
     
  5. himji

    himji Sonero

    Does it really matter? Physical beauty doesn't compute when dancing, I'm dancing for the sake of dancing, not to undress her with my eyes
     
  6. t0mt0m

    t0mt0m Sonero

    A picture to illustrate probably something simple about the comment made. Just click the image to enlarge.
     

    Attached Files:

  7. vata07

    vata07 Descarga

    i doubt it. in my scene at least, the better looking women tend to be the best dancers probably because they get the most dances which obviously translates into more practice. its sad for the lesser good looking salseras because they basically have limited opporutnities to show what they can do. its more important for them to be good dancers. for me, the more addicted i've become, the less looks seem to matter. i'm there for good dances and good dancers, regardless of looks, give me that. (yes i'm becoming quite the salsa snob, i know, :bouncy: ). if i'm interested in the salsera, however, i'll probably give her many dances, regardless of skill, :eek:.
     
  8. smiling28

    smiling28 Moderator

    Its a point but there are so many factors. Eg. girls who are attractive may dance more thus get better practice etc.


    I think the ONLY thing that we could all agree is that a girl/guy who loves dancing is very attractive he he.

    *I often do wonder about the girls who get 'spoilt' early on. Eg. Good looking girls or girls who are 'naturals' or extensive other dance backgrounds and who are the 'favourites' early on getting all the attention (social dances with good leads) plus more attention in classes.

    I think it would be harder perhaps for those girls to stay motivated considering they are given the best early on but maybe that is just me? Obviously the people who just are committed and passionate just shine out.

    Also, dancing is so immeasurable in terms of what you offer. Really subjective which I guess is the perpetual beauty :)



    I for one will say that my dancing technical skill is far behind my charisma/passion for the joy of dancing. Is this a bad thing, no not really as girls enjoyed dancing with me more as a beginner when I focused on the fun stuff/interaction as opposed to the technical side.




    So not saying charisma is equal to looks, just saying that charisma got me onto the dance floor. So whatever gets people onto the dancefloor is whats important. At the end of the day all that you are compared to is you and there are many different roads that people take especially in dancing. Just make yourself you are happy with yours :)

    (but great discussion topic :) )
     
  9. lolita

    lolita Capitán Del Estilo

    So guys, if the better looking salseras get asked more often, then it is true that the less better looking ones have to make huge efforts to get better since practise is not much of an option dueto less dances; PLUS they need to impress in other ways?!

    I do not think it matters, I am just stunned by how the notion is absorbed by men or some men in that regard.

    Can we get some input from salseras??? What do you girls think? And what would be your reaction if the fellow salseros DO think this way?
     
  10. smiling28

    smiling28 Moderator

    one thing about looks though - I do find that really good looking girls are swarmed on in terms of attention from the 'in crowd/members' of a scene generally (even at congresses).

    Not so much about dancing but more 'socialising' perhaps :)

    The best people I find have the best attitudes as everyone's looks are so subjective/ fleeting and dynamic (eg. 4am with no sleep vs well rested ). Whereas a great attitude is wonderful with the lights on or off and at any time of the day :)

    *that said,l think most girls that dance are beautiful because they are expressing something!!!
     
  11. bailar y tocar

    bailar y tocar Clave Commander

    I think it goes both ways. Very attractive girls are also very selective and may choose not to dance with good leads but rather with good-looking or socially connected leads. So they miss out on just as many opportunities as people of average looks.
     
  12. barrefly

    barrefly Nuevo Ritmo

    lolita, The guy is dead wrong. In every form of dance I have had my daughter in....the better dancers are the more attractive or have better physicality, overall. Smiling28 seem to have explained it very well. Still, ideal physicality my be specific to a specific form of dance. i.e. Salsa ideals for fast turns and lifts/tricks may have a follow at 4' 11" to 5' 3".
    Ballet 5' 5" to 5' 7 1/2" for the long lines and beautiful extensions.
     
  13. Offbeat

    Offbeat Clave Commander

    Hmm...all the responses so far have been from the guys !
     
  14. antigone

    antigone Pattern Police

    Well, if I said it was a bunch of ignorant BS, I wouldn't really constructively contribute to the discussion... :)
     
  15. vata07

    vata07 Descarga

    i think it depends on the scene. in my scene, its poor etiquette to refuse a dance. i think its so amusing looking at the faces of some women as they'd rather not dance with some of the guys that ask them, :bouncy:. the lesser attractive and older women simply don't get asked as much unless there's no one else available. ultimately it comes down to the female. if she wants to get better, she will.
     
  16. spotcat

    spotcat Banned

    In it's simplest terms, good looking people get more oppotunities, less good looking people often develope other attributes.

    Me for example: I've got a great sense of humour.

    If you choose to use those opportunities, you've got a head start. Most people are basically lazy though and will do the least work for the most reward. So it depends on what you're after.

    For salsa, it depends if you're after attention or if you're after being a good dancer (and are smart enough not to believe everything you're told).

    A woman who can move well does look very good. Jodie Kidd, a model, looked awkward and kind of unattrative on the dance floor (imesho).
     
  17. hyh

    hyh Descarga

    In my opinion, it depends on your definition of great dancer as well as your definition of great looking.

    People who dance well generally look much more attractive on the dance floor than they do in the outside world. This is true for both male and female.

    So-thought very attractive Salseros and Salseras generally would not be considered so special in terms of looks outside the Salsa world. The well-known ones named in this thread would be considered merely attractive or even simply cute rather than “stunning” in the outside world. Imagine submitting 100 mug shots of average-to-great-looking Salsa dancers on hotornot.com and see how they would be rated by the general public.

    Certainly more attractive people inside the Salsa world get opportunities to get better faster compared to ugly ones. I don’t think the threshold for beauty is all that high though.

    Really good-looking people may be less likely to venture into the Salsa world. I think they would be less likely to feel a need to work hard to get decent. This is often true in the outside world as well. Think acting world (where looks are important) – are the best actors and actresses the same as the best looking ones in general?

    This does not preclude that some really good-looking people still do the hard work to become really good at whatever they decide to specialize in. In this Salsa probably is no different than the rest of the world.
     
  18. azzey

    azzey El Sabroso de Conguero

    I personally think it's more about character than looks. There are some studies which show that certain personality types well suited to learning (particularly forms like dance, modeling, martial arts, languages etc) are also good looking, mainly because of genetic factors. There's probably a bias in the salsa scene towards certain character types and thus a similar bias towards genetic factors.
     
  19. spotcat

    spotcat Banned

    There are also many studies that show that attractive students get more attention and higher evaluations from their teachers.

    Do you think there's possibly a cross-over?
     
  20. Lola

    Lola Sonero

    I think that it's a three prong thing.

    First off it's a matter of how passionate they are about dancing. Even someone who is bad (see Edie's article about her spins at first) can become good if they are determined enough.

    Second is how well/quickly they can learn. The girl who can pick up movement in half the time of a girl who is equally passionate about dance will learn twice as quickly, assuming they practice equal amounts.

    However, the prettier girls do get more dances. So if you take two girls who are equally passionate and quick learners but one is quite pretty and the other is not as fortunate looking the prettier one will simply get more opportunity to practice with a partner...which after all is the point.
     

Share This Page