cuban salsa freestyle / improvisation

Discussion in 'Just Dance' started by salsaImpro, Aug 8, 2017.

  1. hey guys, I am starting a website on which you can learn the most difficult thing there is in salsa : cuban freestyle. You will learn it step-by-step, from a beginner up to an expert. I have released my first video, teaching the most important pattern to know when you want to learn freestyle. The video and sound is not so good, I will use a better camera next time :) Let me know if you like it or not !

     
    #1
  2. MrR

    MrR Son Montuno

    Out of curiosity: what is your definition of "freestyle"?

    While the quality of the video itself is disqualifying, all I see there is a simple pattern with standard hierarchical lead-follow-system and to make it worse, a method that usually is used for choreo drills applied to a micro choreo.
     
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  3. Hi MrR well indeed, my experience showed that one starts best with an easy pattern to learn how to improvise all of your moves. This is the pattern that suits best, it is not just a pattern. Freestyle is improvising all of you moves as a couple while dancing. This you need to learn step by step.
     
  4. After 10 videos, one can already create more complex moves. And indeed, it sounds like a contradiction. Starting with learning a pattern in order to dance without fixed patterns
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2017
  5. Smejmoon

    Smejmoon El Sabroso de Conguero

    What's "micro choreo"?
     
  6. Smejmoon

    Smejmoon El Sabroso de Conguero

    You could learn to improvise faster, if you just blindfolded yourself and turned on the music. Probably one video would be enough get started.
     
    salsaImpro likes this.
  7. MrR

    MrR Son Montuno

    A pattern.
    Or better: a little element of the dance that is trained and danced in a pre-prepared manner as opposed to improvised/freestyle. (Calling it choreo actually is quite harsh as it implies, the follow knows her part too. But as it is displayed as a series of standard elements, those the follow probably is expected to know before.)

    Again no definition - and if I take mine, I have still to find out, what positive role the breaking down of pattern has to play there.
    Are you speaking of freestyle in the meaning of "freely arranging core movement elements of the dance to build up your effective patterns (moves) on your own and on the fly" ? Then we simply are using different definitions.
    I am not saying, that this is anything bad. Many dancers would greatly benefit from that ability and I am practicing it a lot myself - the first thing I do with a new pattern is breaking it down and looking which elements I can refine and add to my selection. But I would not call it freestyle.
     
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  8. Well to a certain level, that would work. But it will take you much time as you have to figure out everything yourself. What you need to develop is a kind of abstraction that simplifies things. During freestyle, you do not have the time to really think a lot. You have to be able to react fast on the music, on your partner, on everything that happens around you
     
  9. Hey what is your definition then? Well there are a lot of approaches to learn freestyle. I tried many on different people ( and myself) and I only see this working fine. This pattern will be used as a handhold in the beginning. Later on, you will have so many possibilities that you can let it go. In my course, I teach later on the details of timing and handwork. Once you understand that, you have to remember less and less. If I teach it from the beginning, it is overwhelming for 80% of the people. So I learned not to do that, but to go slowely in that direction.
     
  10. terence

    terence Maestro 'Descarga' Cachao

    Freestyle... this term when applied to dance ,means the "dance" has not been choreod ..And the correlation between one group of steps nd another gives no guarantee for an easier passage. Are there some sequences that do ?, of course.
    Improvise; in dance this occurs when one has to substitute/add, a different sequence to what would normally follow .
     
  11. well i have the same definition then :)
     
  12. MrR

    MrR Son Montuno

    I'd use a gradual definition:

    1. Dance: moving to music. (Solo-Impro)
    2. Partner Dance: Dancing as partners. (Contact Improvisation)
    3. Class (=Salsa): (Partner) Dance with a typical (set of) rhythm(s) and movement characteristics.
    3.b Subclass (=Salsa Cubana): Salsa with the specific characteristics of cuban Salsa.

    - cut -

    4. Style: Selected group / types of movements.

    Only up to point 3 it is freestyle. Once you reach point for it isn't in my eyes. BUT the styles can be very different from full dogmatic studio styles and choreographed dances on the one hand to very free streetstyle or spontaneous dances on the other. And "Cuban Style" should be read as "A Style of the Salsa Cubana subclass".

    Breaking down movements into their core elements and using those freely is creating an own style out of other ones. Every good dancer should be capable of this - and too many who are seen as good dancers and running around teaching are barely.

    So how instead of simply saying "we are learning freestyle now" you put in a short explanation and demonstration, what freestyle is for you. A teacher should be seen dancing anyway.
     
  13. MrR

    MrR Son Montuno

    I forgot to add the definition - the above is only the description:

    A freestyle dance is a dance that is only bound to the core rules necessary to define that class of dance. The dance in it's core is improvised without falling back to preselected elements, which would define a style .
     
  14. tocatimba

    tocatimba Shine Officer

    I'm sorry but this is a pretty poor excuse for "Cuban" anything. Do you know what the purpose of guapea is? Do you know what the open position is? Do you realize that both of you are spending all your time backstepping? Do you realize that your lead is a salsa style slingshot which doesn't exist in Cuban dance? You're not going to lead anyone to an "expert" level since you yourself (and your lovely partner) are basically fundamentally ignorant of what Cuban dance is .....
     
  15. Dissonant Harmony

    Dissonant Harmony Rhythm Deputy

    I don't. :(

    What is the propose of Guapea?
     
  16. tocatimba

    tocatimba Shine Officer

    Dear DH ... the only people that should be able to answer ridiculous questions like this are those that set themselves up as "teachers" or "experts". The purpose of guapea (sometimes called pa'ti pa'mi) is to mark time by cycling through the open position in a controlled fashion. There are many variants of guapea in Cuba but they share that characteristic. In the experts video above, their "open position" is more akin to an American salsa position with the corresponding American salsa footwork .... I'm not going to get into their arm tension problems since what they are doing has nothing to do with an actual guapea that could be used in a Cuban style rueda or in social dancing for that matter.
     
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  17. vit

    vit El Sabroso de Conguero

    Americsn salsa footwork usually looks better than above video ... :p
     
    terence likes this.
  18. Dissonant Harmony

    Dissonant Harmony Rhythm Deputy

    Thank you for your answer, tocatimba,
    could you please help me understand what: "To mark time" means, though?

    (My questions may sound ridiculous to you, but I'm asking them completely genuinely).
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2017
  19. terence

    terence Maestro 'Descarga' Cachao

    Marking time, is to dance in place ( like the triple Mambo /Guajira )
     
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  20. vit

    vit El Sabroso de Conguero

    It's something that many linear salsa dancers don't do when standing at place, especially leaders. ;) American side somewhat better
     

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