Basic step weight transfer

Discussion in 'Just Dance' started by sindi, Apr 8, 2011.

  1. sindi

    sindi Changui

    At this forum on thread 9117(page2)

    there is following post by Offbeat:



    Please please correct me if I am wrong here !! I am confused.. I watched this video and to me it looked like she is putting her heel on the ground on the count of 4 and 8 when she is doing forward-back basic !!! If this is the case, is this how it's supposed to be done to make the basic look like more in a flow. What needs to be done to make the basic look like in a flow..I am not stopping sharply on 4 and 8s but still..--as DJNik also said "..the basic step (without properly incorporating the hands/arms/rib etc. and flow (e.g. not pausing in staccato fashion on the 4 and ".. I took private lessons from an instructor (well known) but I was not told to use 4 and 8 either for weight transfer or for touching the heel to the ground.
    ( I posted this in videoclips section also on the above thread but it did not get hi-lighted for some reason)
     
    #1
  2. sweavo

    sweavo Maestro 'Guaguanco' Rodríguez

    I think that's a beautiful basic step, if a little exaggerated for teaching purposes.

    I think you are on the right lines when you say that you are not stopping on 4 & 8 ... but don't get too hung up on when exactly your heel goes down. IMO the heel should go down, but it's important that the ball of the foot bears the weight and you dont "go back on your heels".

    IMO 4 and 8 should be used for weight transfer.
     
  3. mani

    mani Changui

    nice video !! Thank you sweavo about 4 and 8 for weight transfer.
    Then is the following weight transfer timing correct for forward basic ?

    If each beat is divided into two parts : first half beat and second half beat then :
    calling first half beat as the count itself( 1 2 etc..) and the second half beat as "and" , ideally it will be (for on1 dance )-

    1 : left foot steps forward with weight with it
    and : lift right foot heel
    2 : step right on place with weight on it
    and : lift left foot heel
    3 : step back with left foot with weight on it
    and : transfer weight to left foot
    4 : transfer weight to left foot
    and : lift right foot entirely
    5 : step back with right foot taking weight with it
    and : lift left foot heel
    6 : step on place with left foot with weight on it
    and : lift right foot heel
    7 : step forward with right foot with weight on it
    and : transfer weight to right foot
    8 : transfer weight to right foot
    and : lift left foot entirely

    Can you please clarify if this is correct ? or if any changes are required ?
     
  4. sagitta

    sagitta Pattern Police

    In terms of flow there are little tricks that dancers do with the basic on1. One such trick is on the second quick the foot is not replaced in exactly the same spot.

    1left forward
    2right replace but a little further back
    3left back
    5right back
    6left replace but a little further forward
    7right forward

    This is shown here: http://addicted2salsa.com/videos/lesson/improving-the-salsa-dance-basic-step-for-beginners
     
  5. chr

    chr Shine Officer

    AFAIK the common way is:
    1 : left foot touches floor
    1& : weight is transfered
    etc.
     
  6. Smejmoon

    Smejmoon El Sabroso de Conguero

    .. to add ..

    When you push back with the front foot, try slidin' back a bit with the right, same on the back break. Try variations. I'd go for stepping in place only when there is very little room in the dancefloor or when lady is turning and you don't want to destabilize her. Otherwise go for the smooth flow of the whole body and it's not that important where and when exactly the step happend, when weight transfer happens is important, because your partner will feel it.

    Step in place is OK, but as an exception, not norm.
     
  7. sindi

    sindi Changui

    Thank you sweavo, Chr for the clarification on weight transfer !!
    Thank you Sagitta, Smejmoon for the tricks for the flow !!
    Thanks mani for a detailed weight transfer question. I should probably move the question up, to my original post :))
    Getting a better picture about weight transfer .. I feel now ....
     
  8. Latindancer006

    Latindancer006 Son Montuno

    This all depends on how you define when a step is taken. I've learned that a step is taken when you plant your foot. So, when you're dancing 'on one' the balls of the feet are planted on beats 1,2,3 and 5,6,7. Eventhough, no steps are taken on beats 4 and 8, it doesn't mean there's no body movement. With regards to weight transfer and flow, it depends on your interpretation of the music. Of course you can dance "metronomically", evenly transfering weight through time from step to step, which is kinda boring. Or dance to the music which somethings you have to "steal" a beat or half a beat (whatever) to complet one movement; in other words, there's contrast to your movement. With regards not lowering the heels on your backward step, you are partially right in your understanding. When you are moving backwards and want to reverse direction to move forward, your should not allow your heel to touch the floor. That would put you too backweighted and slow you down. However, when you want to continue moving back, you should allow your foot to roll down to the heel. This is what you saw in the 3rd step in the video. However, look carefully at the right foot on the 6th step (beat 7). The right heel does not go down at all. Hope this help.
     
  9. Latindancer006

    Latindancer006 Son Montuno

    Personally I think you are over thinking it, When you take a step forward, for example, and roll through your hip to place your weight over that foot, naturally the heel of the free foot should come up (naturally -- you should not have to consciously think about this part at all).
     
  10. mani

    mani Changui

    yeah.. wanted to get an opinion on what I had been taught in private lessons I took from a well known instructor..was taught that for 2's replacement on place, the entire right foot is not to be lifted, just the heel. similarly for 6's replacement on place, the entire left foot is not to be lifted, just the heel. so the heel lifting vs entire foot lifting on 1 and 5 in the post is mainly for steps 2 and 6.
    But again , for tricks that were pointed out above: to not replace on spot, this won't be applicable, as the entire foot will be lifted for steps 2 and 6.
    Have seen some videos where profs. are lifting entire right foot on 1& and entire left foot on 5& which is opposed to what I had been taught.
     
  11. mani

    mani Changui

    yup...thank you chr for clarifying..
     
  12. petteri

    petteri Descarga

    By the way it is not necessary to lift entire foot from the ground in order to move it. Keeping ball of the foot on the floor will often give better balance.
     
  13. Offbeat

    Offbeat El Sabroso de Conguero

    Not sure what you mean by lifting entire foot on 1& and 5&. What you have been taught seems to be okay.

    Also I think you are confusing between "weight transfer" and "stepping on the beat". The "weight transfer" follows "stepping on the beat". Therefore on the 1st count you "step on the beat" with ball of your left foot, on 1& you do the "weight transfer". This is where the heel of your right foot lifts up.

    Going into the 2nd count you "step on the beat" with ball of your right foot. At this point you can either:

    1. Step in place
    2. Slide the ball of your foot to step slight behind.
    3. Lift the the ball of your feet off the ground and step into the ground (either in place or slightly behind)

    At 2& you "weight transfer" - your left heel goes up.

    I assume the #3 above is what you call as lifting the entire foot. As long as you don't lift it too high and can get it back down without going offtime, you are good.

    Focus on the weight transfer. If you get your weight transfer right, your feet will take care of themselves :)
     
  14. mani

    mani Changui

    Thanks so much for the clarification Offbeat ! Thanks Petteri for the balance tip ! Thank you for your time !!

    Incorporating the tip about separation between a step and weight transfer as suggested by you all and from watching and rewatching the video(her forward-back basic) : the beat when she is rolling her feet/her hip pops out(which happens from rolling the foot which happens on weight transfer), I have the following change: Especially noted that there is no weight trasnfer on 3&, her right hip pops out on 3 and remains popped out almost till just before count 5 which probably means that there is no weight transfer on the first half beat of 4 as well.

    initially due to 7 and 8: weight is on right foot

    1 : left foot steps forward
    & : transfer weight to left foot(roll left foot) and lift right foot heel
    2 : step right on place (right foot ball hits the floor)
    & : transfer weight to right foot(roll right foot) and lift left foot heel
    3 : step back with left foot
    & : nothing *
    4 : nothing ?
    & : transfer weight to left foot(left foot rolls) and lift right foot entirely
    5 : step back with right foot
    & : transfer weight to right foot (without rolling*) and lift left foot heel
    6 : step on place with left foot (left foot ball touches the floor)
    & : transfer weight to left foot and lift right foot heel
    7 : step forward with right foot
    & : nothing *
    8 : nothing ?
    and : transfer weight to right foot and lift left foot entirely

    (for my info : transfer of weight on foot x -> roll foot x -> x leg’s hip pops out )

    On 4 and 8 also (which are actually the first half beats of 4 and 8 ) , I have written nothing because in general also to me it looks like she is delaying weight transfer till almost the next count that has a step when doing forward-back basic ..Her hip movement is right-left-right , left-right-left. Had she begun weight transferring on 1&, her left hip would have popped out earlier which does not seem to be the case. It looks like as though during whole count 1 (90%of it), her right hip is popped out.

    The question I guess is whether the first halves of 4 and 8 should also have weight transfer ..

    Unless anyone has any comments /criticism :) I will practise as described above for now.

    **
    Basic step is probably the most beautiful step in Salsa..
    :kitty:
     
  15. sindi

    sindi Changui

    Ok I think I am going to faint now..I totally understand that weight trasnfer timing is more important but, like you mani, I was also taught to lift my right heel on 1&. But is it just me or does anyone else also think the same way as follows:

    Watching him in Oliver's video, I am certain that when spot stepping, unless he rolls one foot completely , he does not lift the other heel. Watch the guy as he is wearing white shoes and hence more clear. But now it also appears to me that when doing forward-back basic as well, the right heel is not lifted by him unless the left foot is rolled out completely which happens on 1&, which means the right heel is lifted directly on 2 instead of 1&. Hence the proper knee bend on 2 and hence the left hip prominently pops out on 2.
    I find the heel lifting imp because the knee bending which is important basically happens on heel lifting .
     
  16. terence

    terence Maestro 'Descarga' Cachao


    If you search the site here, there is a very comprehensive breakdown of the subject.
     
  17. SmartAlx

    SmartAlx Tumbao

    If you do nothing on the 4 and the 8, then you aren't dancing quick-quick-slow. You are dancing quick quick quick stop, quick quick quick stop. Salsa isn't meant to be danced with a stop. It's meant to be smoothly danced. So... This is how I teach it, simplistically speaking.

    1. Left foot forward, transferring weight to the ball of the foot. (quick)
    2. Replace weight back to your right foot. (quick)
    3. Left foot back behind the right foot, NOT transferring weight. (slo-)
    4. Finish the weight transfer to the left foot. (-oh)
      (3 and 4 taking two beats is what makes the movement a slow)
    5. Right foot backward, transferring weight to the ball of the foot. (quick)
    6. Replace weight back to your left foot. (quick)
    7. Right foot in front of the left foot, NOT transferring weight. (slo-)
    8. Finish the weight transfer to the right foot. (-oh)


    (A bit of off-topic controversy for you. If you dance on2 this way the timing isn't quick quick slow, quick quick slow. It's slow quick quick... or more accurately: -oh, quick, quick, slo-, -oh, quick, quick, slo-. The 1 is the ending of the slow weight transfer. You can see exactly how this makes on2 and on1 dancing different in their relationship to the music.

    I want to make a youtube video one day challenging the global teaching community about this question. Some on2 teachers start the quick-quick-slow call on the 1. It should start on the 2 of you are dancing on2.)
     
  18. sindi

    sindi Changui

    Thank you terence.
    Two things are making me worry now.

    I read threads with title containing basic step and read the thread “How do you count to get a smooth basic step?” again and on this thread in the following post by Tripax:

    http://www.salsaforums.com/showpost.php?p=143598&postcount=34

    in the table, tripax writes “Start Lift” on 1& for right foot. But I thought this probably is not happening in the Oliver video ..certainly for spot stepping and suspecting the forward-back basic as mentioned in my post above…I may be wrong ! Haven’t found posts including foot lifting at other places.


    Another thing that worries me probably even more is what mani wrote in her post #14 above. In the Oliver’s video, like mani said, they really seem to be delaying weight transfer to almost next count that steps. Almost going to repeat what she wrote. I also see in the video that on most of count 1 (85% or more of count 1), her right hip is popped out (or sway to right side). Almost looks like through the whole count 1 , her right hip is popped out. Had she begun transferring weight on left foot earlier ( on 1&), her left hip should have started to pop out(sway to left side) during 1&. Same applies for other counts. Her hip movement is right-left-riight, left-right-leeft.
    I think these two above points are connected.
     
  19. mani

    mani Changui

    ..to add..
    rolling may be postponed till just before the next count that has a step which is probably causing the hip to remain swayed in the directions mentioned above ( right-left-riiight, left-right-leeeft ) in the forward-back basic in the video.
     
  20. mani

    mani Changui

    yup.. absolutely !! actually by 4 and 8 , I meant only the first half beats of 4 and 8 and not entire 4 and 8..and as I mentioned, the weight transfer is definitely on 4& and 8&...and was just wondering if the weight transfer would also be on the first halves of beats 4 and 8..from your post, looks like it's there on first halves of 4 and 8. I guess the connection betweek rolling and weight transfer needs defined.. When I see Oliver's video, when he transfers weight to left foot on 4 , I am not sure why his hip does not sway left-backwards during 4 ? This is my question. It's almost count 5 when his hip sways left-backwards. Now this may be because left foot rolling is postponed. So may be do the weight transfer on 4 and do the foot rolling towards the end of 4& :) which will sway the hip left-backwards on 5 and not earlier. Please help :)
     

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