Asking on-1 or on-2 then dancing neither

Discussion in 'Just Dance' started by David, Jul 18, 2016.

  1. David

    David Administrator Staff Member

    Thought this was funny
  2. Jag75

    Jag75 Shine Officer

    I'm sure it happens :)

    I've asked a follow on1 or on2? She proceeded to tell me "on 2 of course!" and the resulting dance is spent trying to keep her on on2 timing whilst she looks at me like I'm myself off time...

    I think some people are just embarrassed to admit they are still learning on2 and in a sense ashamed, but won't even admit it to themselves...
  3. owldancer

    owldancer Son Montuno

    This! Bonus points if she says "I thought we were dancing on2??" a third of the way through the dance. It feels a bit weird because I'm stealing your obvious giant back break on 1...
    Dissonant Harmony likes this.
  4. Slowdance

    Slowdance Descarga

    Aren't there a few slightly different On2 timings? How weird is it when such dancers dance together? Could that be a factor?
    Live2dance likes this.
  5. vit

    vit El Sabroso de Conguero

    Every dancer has slightly different timing anyway ...
    Smejmoon likes this.
  6. owldancer

    owldancer Son Montuno

    Probably. The slightly different timings and feel isn't it though, in these situations, because it's very obvious they feel more comfortable with the on1 basic.
  7. Offbeat

    Offbeat Maestro 'Fania' Pacheco

    It could happen with someone who thinks they are dancing on1 or on2, but dancing neither (probably beginners). I know there are some dancers who don't care what beat they dance on - these are usually long time dancers. It is impossible to justify with them on why they should consistently dance on a choosen beat. They though will never ask any follower on1 or on2 question.

    Recently I have come across a few followers at a weekly club/social which is primary on2. They either take the group lessons offered before the dancing or are part of student performance team run by the organizer. They want to dance on2. But when following they can't keep on2 timing, can't end turn or spin in the place they started (off balance) and will usually finish late whatever that is you are leading them - basically turning everything offtime. Then they think the leader is not leading them on2 :)
  8. Offbeat

    Offbeat Maestro 'Fania' Pacheco

    No. If the follower iis following the leader properly then there doesn't have to be issue. A leader can be offbeat consistently - e.g. dancing on4 or on5 but is consistent about it, then follower may feel weird about it, but mechanically there is no issue following. A leader whose is offtime and dancing on any beat can be little difficult to follow but still doable. Then there are leaders who may be dancing consistently on1 or on2 but don't realise the change within the song that should make them switch. And the last is those who may be switching between on1 or on2. As a follower you can follow all these leaders.
    Slowdance likes this.
  9. Offbeat

    Offbeat Maestro 'Fania' Pacheco

    True. The same dancer within a song can vary by plus or minus half beat.
  10. lidiap

    lidiap Descarga

    A “creative” line I got relating to this: I was recently dancing in Toronto, not my scene so I didn’t know the dancers, and before a dance I asked the lead if he danced on2 (I rarely ask this, but I do it if I notice the lead on the floor before as being a good dancer, I think there may be a chance.) He said “let me try you on1 first to see how you respond.” :rolleyes: Really?? :rolleyes: I observed him later, and he danced on1 the entire time, so I’m pretty sure he didn’t dance on2. Obviously he couldn’t just say that he didn’t dance on2.
    MAMBO_CEC, Jag75 and sofar like this.
  11. lidiap

    lidiap Descarga

    I don’t agree with this. I said it before, I won’t follow bad timing, and I think the dance would be a mess even if I tried. That’s because I dance to the music, not relying to the lead’s timing. If he’s offtime I don’t know what he hears and dances to. I’m just guessing that this may be easier for a very beginner follow who doesn’t yet have a good sense of timing and is not familiar with the music, but for an experienced follow who “owns” her timing it is very hard to follow an offtime lead. I don't know what "mechanically there is no issue" means, I hope we try to not dance mechanically.
  12. sofar

    sofar Son

    I'm way more comfortable with On1 but *can* dance On2 (it'll probably take about half a dance until I'm in the groove, though). So, if a guy asks, "On2?" I say, "I'm still getting used to On2, just to warn you." They never rescind their offer, and we get a nice laugh when I inevitably take that back break on one.
    Live2dance likes this.
  13. Offbeat

    Offbeat Maestro 'Fania' Pacheco

    I don't disagree with you. And I think I made that clear when I say "mechanically there is no issue". You won't follow bad timing as a result of choice you are making. That is fine. It doesn't mean you are incapable of following, if you had to. That is the distinction I was trying to make.
  14. lidiap

    lidiap Descarga

    I don’t think it’s only a matter of choice. I don’t think I’m able to follow a timing that I don’t hear in the music. I can dance on1 and on2, but I don’t know how to dance on4 or on5. I couldn’t do it by following the lead’s timing, because what I hear in the music is the 1 or 2, what I’m used to. So we’d be off, as it sometimes happens in a bad dance. You said “as a follower you can follow all these leaders”, by this argument any follow should be able to dance on2 just fine with any on2 lead. I bet you, and other on2 leads, know that’s not the case. In other words, no, follows can’t really follow any timing and be good at it. I’d be curious to hear other follows’ opinions.
    Live2dance likes this.
  15. mlemonl

    mlemonl Son Montuno

    on5 is fine for me at least. I'm alright with the forward break on the 1 if that's what they lead.

    Mechanically, and theoretically, there is not issue... although we can go through the motions off-time the dance will always be way off... I personally also don't feel like I'm dancing (but I'm following). When it's off-time, I have a huge problem of when to properly weight change because it's no longer to the music but at the whim of the lead. Because of this, I am usually late to the off-time lead because I have not properly prepped for what's next. This is not an major issue if it the patterns are not too complicated. But off-time + complex patterns and spins = possible injury, and that isn't acceptable.

    And I say theoretically, because if the weight transfers and all aspects of the lead itself is "led" then timing shouldn't be a problem to competent followers. But if the lead is off-time, odds are those subtle aspects of the lead won't be there.

    And I thank all the leads that do not try to do complex moves when I have been off-time following.
    Live2dance likes this.
  16. Jag75

    Jag75 Shine Officer

    Not really - in the different on2 timings the 2 and 6 don't vary. An ET2 lead should be able to adapt to a P2 follow and visa-versa.
  17. Live2dance

    Live2dance Shine Officer

    If someone is trying to dance ET2 with someone who is doing P2 (or BR 2) then it is going to be a mess. @Slowdance is right!
  18. vit

    vit El Sabroso de Conguero

    Yeah, the point is ... should be ... to more or less extent ....

    This is a complex subject, but generally, various people don't dance the same way for various reason, like:

    1 different teachers
    2 different precision of "internal clock"
    3 different body type
    4 different lifestyle / community and related general way of movement in the community
    5 different genotype / race / whatever and related general way of movement
    - etc ...

    Have in mind that point 1 depends on points 1-5 of their teachers etc ...

    And of course, some people are more adaptive to the partner and some less (both leaders and followers)

    So some combinations of leader and follower work better and some not that good. It's pretty much the same is it about salsa on2, on1, casino, bachata, kizomba, zouk, ballroom ....
  19. Offbeat

    Offbeat Maestro 'Fania' Pacheco

    I guess we will have to disagree. You are talking about case where both are unable to adapt. That is not a common scenario. It is an exception.

    We adapt to all kind of partners in most cases. Even cuban/casino style (speaking as a non cuban/casino dancer).
  20. Offbeat

    Offbeat Maestro 'Fania' Pacheco

    I can speak on my experience of dancing with on1 followers, who hardly dance on2. In many cases it works out fine. There are a few where it doesn't and the follower is so ingrained in their on1 habit. I said fine, not perfect. Fine in a sense good enough that the dance is fun.

    Sometimes followers will ask me to dance on1. I will try to oblige with a caveat that, I may revert to on2 because I not use to dancing on1. Though lately and magically I have found myself able to dance on1 more consistently in a song.

    Best example for me is lead in our scene who is very regular dancer. He dances with almost all the followers. This lead is a self professed gentleman who insists that he dances on what he feels like and is not bother by what beat he breaks on :) And he truly doesn't! I can tell you that he dances far more than I do!

    Would like to hear other follower's opinions too.
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2016

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