Learning On2 (ET Style) for On1 dancers Corner

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peachexploration

In the spirit of Mexi_Gabacho's thread, I thought I would create another one just for support and specific ideas for those of us who are transitioning from On1 to ET2 (Eddie Torres Style On2). I'll start with a few observations I have made since I started a couple of months ago. ET2 masters/dancers, please feel free to correct us and add your thoughts. We need all the help we can get. Or at least, I do! :lol:

Anyways, here is goes:

One of my first observations that I've learned is that you don't really get rid of the 1 beat while dancing ET2. You actually "begin on 1" and break on 2.

Here is the the breakdown of the basic step from Salsanewyork.com

1st beat of the measure - The man steps back with his left foot. The woman steps forward with her right foot.

2nd beat of the measure - The man steps farther back with his right foot, then changes direction, starting to lean forward with his body = "breaks forward on 2". The woman steps farther forward with her left foot, then changes direction, starting to lean back with her body = "breaking back on 2".

3rd beat of the measure - The man steps in place with his left foot, while his body is moving forward. The woman steps in place with her right foot, while her body is moving backward.

4th beat of the measure - No steps.

5th beat of the measure - The man steps forward with his right foot, in front of his left foot. The woman steps backward with her left foot, behind her right foot.

6th beat of the measure - The man steps farther forward with his left foot, then changes direction, starting to lean backward with his body = "breaks back on 6". The woman steps farther back with her right foot, then changes direction, starting to lean forward = "breaks forward on 6".

7th beat of the measure - The man steps in place with his right foot, while his body is moving backward. The woman steps in place with her left foot, while her body is moving forward.

8th beat of the measure - No steps.
 
Just remember and important tip: For follows, the action is on beats 123 and for leads, the action is on beats 567....Sounds like 0n1 now but it's not really. :) It's reversed if doing on1. Can anyone else confirm this?
 
peachexploration said:
Just remember and important tip: For follows, the action is on beats 123 and for leads, the action is on beats 567....Sounds like 0n1 now but it's not really. :) It's reversed if doing on1. Can anyone else confirm this?
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Yes I believe you are right -- something to do with ET's "ladies first" philosophy IIRC... I like the fact that, in ET2, shines are always taught in the follower's timing :).

But it's not a straight reverse of on1 -- the most important step for the follower, the walk forward in CBL (equivalent of "the 5" on2) happens on the 2 beat, not the 1.
 
Maybe someone should design a class or video specifically for ON1 dancers that are converting to ON2 to cover such sticking points and help break the common habits.

Would be nice if a Salsa class began with a bit of a musical foundation and the objective of letting the music dictate whether you dance on 1, 2, 3 or whatever.
 
salcero2005 said:
Maybe someone should design a class or video specifically for ON1 dancers that are converting to ON2 to cover such sticking points and help break the common habits.

Would be nice if a Salsa class began with a bit of a musical foundation and the objective of letting the music dictate whether you dance on 1, 2, 3 or whatever.
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I'm totally with you on that. Seems like there would be a good market for it. The problem is that most of the 'big' On2 instructors, are On2-native. I'd be the first one buying it, as I'm sure something like that would speed up my learning process (or at least the amount of time it takes to get comfortable with the On2 footwork).
 
Hi MG. :) There is this one DVD I have that demonstrates how moves are done On1 and On2 but it's not broken down, just demonstrated. It's the Avanced Volume by Juan & Diana but it's not helpful being as though it's not really ET2. :(
 
Can someone summarize the different styles of ON2 ... Razzmatazz, Eddie Torres, Juan Mantos, etc.? Are the styles different, or are they the same? I ask because I keep seeing ET2 as though it is different from other ON2 styles. If that is so, do ON2 dancers that learned in different systems clash :?:
 
salcero2005 said:
Can someone summarize the different styles of ON2 ... Razzmatazz, Eddie Torres, Juan Mantos, etc.? Are the styles different, or are they the same? I ask because I keep seeing ET2 as though it is different from other ON2 styles. If that is so, do ON2 dancers that learned in different systems clash :?:
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Boriken is a better authority but the two I know are:

Palladium style or Power 2 which is done beats 2,3,4 6,7,8. 1 and 5 beats are held (I think). :oops:

Eddie Torres (ET2) style is done on 1,2,3 5,6,7 but still breaking on2. (Steps explained above in detail).
 
salcero2005 said:
Can someone summarize the different styles of ON2 ... Razzmatazz, Eddie Torres, Juan Mantos, etc.? Are the styles different, or are they the same? I ask because I keep seeing ET2 as though it is different from other ON2 styles. If that is so, do ON2 dancers that learned in different systems clash :?:
Click to expand...

ET2 (Eddie Torres) = NY City on2, which is as explained above by peach.

Power2 = Palladium style.
This is danced by holding a count (The one and five), men starting forward just as on1. the break is done on the second beat of the bar as well, just like ET2.

I'm not sure Juan Matos dances anything other than ET2.

I dance power2, and more, and more becoming worse on my ET2, which is still a million miles away from my on1. :D

I would say that in my 4 years of dancing power2 I've only had a clash with one lady. The rest usually don't notice that I'm holding the first beat of the bar.

A number of on1 dancers have told me that it is easier to follow someone dancing power2 than it is to follow someone dancing ET2, because of the "unusual" stepping sequence...
 
peachexploration said:
Hi MG. :) There is this one DVD I have that demonstrates how moves are done On1 and On2 but it's not broken down, just demonstrated. It's the Avanced Volume by Juan & Diana but it's not helpful being as though it's not really ET2. :(
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I've got two DVDs by Jami Josephson (who came to Edinburgh to teach last month... she's great :) ), and moves are demonstrated On1 and On2. I have only had a quick look so far :oops:, but it was interesting to see her explanation of different ways to double spin On2 and On1.
 
salcero2005 said:
interesting ... what are the roots of power On2? who is the ET of power On2?
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The main people behind Power 2 are RazzMTazz, and their website says:

234, OR POWER 2
RazzMTazz teaches and dances on Power 2, the original New York salsa style that emerged in the Palladium era. The Mambo Aces pioneered it, and legends like Freddie Rios and George Vascones followed suit. They all swore by the power it gave their movement.
Click to expand...

About ET2 (which RazzMTazz *doesn't* call ET2 :?), it says:
123 -- BALLROOM 2, or “NEW YORK 2”
Many schools in New York are teaching the 123 method, which is the ballroom style developed by commercial dance schools.

Why do they teach Ballroom 2 instead of the Power 2? Well, quite simply, because it’s easier to do.

And why is it easier? Because people have an easier time stepping on “1” than waiting for the “2.” Most people can find “1,” the first beat in the music, but haven’t developed the ear to find “2.” So stepping “one-two” is like a handy cheat for breaking on "2."

(http://www.razzmtazz.com/power2.html)
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:shock: :? :roll:
 
MacMoto said:
salcero2005 said:
interesting ... what are the roots of power On2? who is the ET of power On2?
Click to expand...
The main people behind Power 2 are RazzMTazz, and their website says:

234, OR POWER 2
RazzMTazz teaches and dances on Power 2, the original New York salsa style that emerged in the Palladium era. The Mambo Aces pioneered it, and legends like Freddie Rios and George Vascones followed suit. They all swore by the power it gave their movement.
Click to expand...

About ET2 (which RazzMTazz *doesn't* call ET2 :?), it says:
123 -- BALLROOM 2, or “NEW YORK 2”
Many schools in New York are teaching the 123 method, which is the ballroom style developed by commercial dance schools.

Why do they teach Ballroom 2 instead of the Power 2? Well, quite simply, because it’s easier to do.

And why is it easier? Because people have an easier time stepping on “1” than waiting for the “2.” Most people can find “1,” the first beat in the music, but haven’t developed the ear to find “2.” So stepping “one-two” is like a handy cheat for breaking on "2."

(http://www.razzmtazz.com/power2.html)
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:shock: :? :roll:
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Thanks, I took a few classes with Maria Tores and also Addie (Angel's wife) a while back. I never thought about the dif. but felt there was something a little dif., but you seemed to wind up in the same place in the end. I just got tired of all the dif. counting schemes, especially since my default is On1.
 
I had my first private on Sunday. Amazing what you learn in an hour. I had this terrible problem of ending up on the 5 beat coming out a turn or spin. I found that I needed to slow it down a bit. As long as I prep/get the signal from the lead on 6, 7 beats, there is more than enough time. Much smoother. I practice in the office bathroom every chance I got yesterday at work. I also learn that my turns were too big. Meaning my feet where too far apart. Once I corrected that problem, it became smoother as well. Those points are not so much On2 issues but at least some bad habits are being ironed out. :)
 
I'm in need of some input from people who do both LA style (on1) and ET on2 regarding something very basic: the crossbody lead.

My on2 teacher tells me that I'm slow to do the cross -- he feels I'm waiting for him to push me before I start moving. He says I should step forward without waiting for the push on my back, and that that's the way dancers in NY dance...

This grates on my LA on1 instinct, as it has been drummed into me that I should wait for the pressure on my back before I cross; that I should even lean back a bit on the 4 to make sure I don't cross until led (see my old post re. CBL); that I should try to delay the cross a little to maximise the swoosh! effect. None of my teachers nor the on1 leaders I dance with regularly have complained/pointed out to me that I'm crossing too late waiting for a push, but maybe they do think I am late and just haven't told me? I'm confused... :?

But then I do understand that the overall feel of NY on2 dancing is supposed to be quite different from that of LA on1 -- smooth vs. flash'n' bang, close & compact vs. exagerrated expand/contract action, circular vs. linear, etc. So perhaps these differences also call for different CBL dynamics? Since on2 is a very small minority in Scotland, I don't have anyone I can turn to for a second opinion.

Any advice/comment/experience to share?
 
Mac, I'm having the same problem only my instructor calls it a stutter in my feet. :lol: He noticed it a couple of weeks ago while we were doing a CBL and yes, there was that delay. What promted it was left and right turns that I was having problems with in some move, can't remember which one, and just couldn't get it so he had me just do CBLs exercises by myself for a while and found the problem. The if infamous stutter (delay). He suggested that I practice continuously hitting the precise beats and not compensating for the delayed or unaccented beats such as 4 and 8 like you may do dancing on1. Hope that makes sense or helps. :? :D
 
hmm..interesting problem because I've never encountered it :?
I'm not aware of completing a CBL on2 without being lead, i.e. a pull on my hand by the lead, or a push from behind or by the waist

Yes peach it might have to do with performing the CBL footwork on the right counts once the lead indicates that it is a CBL. And it should be a fluid move, almost pivoting on the 2-3. but I should add that I don't remember ever having to count thorough steps except when I lead so...

Also I dance both LA on1 (4+ years) and NY on2 (2+ years), and there are various flavors in between so it's hard to characterize one with "flash n bang" versus the other being just smooth. I've met a good amount of smooth on1 dancers as well as some flashy on2 dancers, so you just never know these days

--------
And by the way, any transitioning dancers tried using an instrument to help you dance on2 without having to count??
A couple of weeks ago I explained to a local instructor who was trying to learn on2 that he should listen to the bass guitar (or tumbao, whichever one is louder) to help him determine the 2 and 6, in addition to demonstrating the basic step and some side-to-side
I was surprised how rapidly that concept improved his ability to stay on2, also to convert his on1 moves to ET2. I had used this with one or two others in the past but not able to see them dance to determine if this helped.
Anyway I'm really impressed by the way he not only keeps the beat, but can actually groove to the music in the particular way that NY on2 dancers can. I have enjoyed all the on2 dances with him :D
 
africana said:
And by the way, any transitioning dancers tried using an instrument to help you dance on2 without having to count??
Click to expand...

I always have the clave beat that plays the 2 and 6 beat in my head when I listen to a song, if I want to break on 2. Its the simple beat that you find in songs like Jimmy Bosch's La Oportunidad.
 
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