Salsa injuries and how to deal with them.

OK, I'm sure many of us have had them and I've been guilty of inflicting a couple in the past but I'm a bit in shock about what happened to me yesterday.

I was still suffering a bit from a sore back as the result of a VERY rough leader on Friday night, I didn't want to miss my private lesson so I took a pain killer and went for my lesson. All went well, back felt a lot better afterwards strangely enough, so I decided to go for my Tango class and catch the last hour of salsa (social dancing) beforehand. Bad move!!!! :cry:

Got asked to dance by this guy, he had a lot of moves but his timing was off now and then and he was a rough leader but I smiled and tried to enjoy it, all the while hoping it wasn't going to aggravate my back. As it turned out my back should have been the least of my worries! He did a move where he had his back to me and then next thing (not sure what he was trying to do) BANG........I get the full force of a very sharp angled elbow in my forehead :shock:. Now, I've been caught by elbows before but never have I felt one quite like this, for a second I thought I was going to pass out, it REALLY hurt. Accidents happen, ok, he's obviously not been taught to keep his elbows 'soft' with no sharp angles, ok but he never said sorry or asked if I was ok, he simply said 'oops'. Thankfully it was near the end of the track and I managed to carry on dancing with little tweety birds circling round my head.

The track ended, for some strange reason I said 'Thank you' :shock: and walked away. As I was walking off the floor a guy who'd been watching said 'are you ok? that looked really nasty', I said 'I'll be ok, thanks for asking' but did wonder why the guy who did it never asked :evil:.

Anyhoodle, I went to sit down (which was the wise thing to do) but on the way got asked to dance by someone else and said yes (which wasn't the wise thing to do :roll. Not far into the dance, I started to feel a bit queezy, after a few turns I had to excuse myself because I felt possitively sick. I went to the toilet and I had a big egg shaped bump on my head, big enough to actually part my fringe :shock:.

A girl in the loo went and got me some ice and after a bit I went back in the room, the whole world and his dog came over to see if I was ok, all except the fella who did it. He was strutting about on the dancefloor without a care in the world.

Now then, I never say no to a dance but I wouldn't want to dance with this guy ever again, not because he made a mistake but because he couldn't have cared less about whether I was ok or not. If he did ever ask me again, should I tell him exactly why I don't want to? I'm not used to saying no

Sorry you got elbowed. Unfortunately this guy wasn't careful enough. Find a way to let him know so that he is more careful in the future, else there will be more people with knocks soon.

Yikes!

tricky situation..........

do you know this guy at all?

You could maybe try the around about tactic along the lines of

"just thought i'd pass on some advice - now I know you didn't mean to wack me the other night and its' ok now , have had injuries before, not the end of the world etc...but i'm sure your elbow felt nearly as much as my head so you must have known it was a fairly strong wack - so you possibily need to watch your elbows, but also in case this happens agian, you should look after the girl once this has happened, check she's ok else she may not want to dance wiht you again if you don't see her off the floor etc..."

he's probably (should be) going to be embarassed at this stage adn may never ask you to dance again and I guess if you say anything at all depends how badly you want to dance with him again??

It really is a tough one but it is totally rude to not check up on someone after you've hit them (i like to apologise on the spot and again afterwards several times!!)
Or maybe a friend could say something - then its not coming from you?

Thing is if you wait until the next time he asks you the dance will either you beign terrified for your life and or you're going to have ot say something on the spot which might be more awkward?

It is tricky but he needs to learn some responsible hitting etiquitte !!

Wow - you're all being too nice, IMHO.

If this were to happen to one of my (fiercer) friends, they'd rip the guy a new one in addition to warning off all their friends on the guy.

Sorry to hear that you got hurt by the stupid guy...

This sounds so horrible that I’m almost lost for words. My advice would be to never dance with him again.

He is clearly experienced, but has learnt to muscle his leads; I think this is because ladies find it hard to follow him when he is off beat. Even if he hadn’t hit you I would advise you not to dance with him because his rough lead threatens serious injuries.

The fact he hit you, barely batted an eyelid, and failed to offer an apology suggests that he either does this quite a lot, or has no regard for his partner’s safety (probably both). This is why I never bear a grudge when a lady refuses to dance with me – god knows who she has just danced with, or whether a stranger has injured her in the past.

I’m sure you’re well enough known in your local scene that you can get away with putting him on a never accept list.

Whether you should tell him why you’re not dancing with him is a tricky issue – but you would be doing other followers a service if you let him know how rough he is and ultimately you ‘might’ change him. That said, the ego of an arrogant man can be as brittle as it is large…his reaction might not be pretty. Even so, if he responds to your refusal and explanation with anything apart from an apology and good grace I would seriously consider informing the management of the venue about him (and definitely all of your female friends).

From personal experience one lady has told me to be gentler in the middle of a dance, she said she had a shoulder injury; she is a great dancer by the way. In my defence I had just danced with a beginner, so my lead wasn’t calibrated at the start of the dance. I responded by apologising and toning down the strength of my lead.
Incredibly, another lady was actually wearing a back brace(!) and before the dance told me that any move that made her lift her arms above shoulder height might aggravate her injury – again I moderated my lead to accommodate her. We had a very nice dance.

yea maybe i am too nice

thinking about it more i'd just put him on my "do not dance with list" and warn all my female friends..

after that it comes down to whether or not you want to talk to him about it or not...but you would be doing a great service to follows if you did - mental note.....should take my own advice...

Thank you all for the advice. I must admit I'm hoping he won't ask again . I just wanted to give the facts about what happened to me and get some advice based on that without presenting more of a 'profile' regarding this particular guy, but now I'm thinking it is important to include a bit more info on the type of guy he seems.

Thing is, I don't really 'know' him but see him about a lot, he goes to this place every week. I know you shouldn't really judge someone until you get to know them but there's always been something about this guy I don't like and to be honest after this happened, I don't really want to get to know him. I have no doubt that if I were to criticize his leading in anyway by explaining why I don't want to dance with him, I would get a 'Foxtrot Oscar' in return.

He's one of those types that 'struts' about, thinks he's fantastic, won't dance with anyone who he thinks is 'lower' than his level (when he has no idea about just how low his level actually is) and he always has a smug look on his face when he's watching the class, as if he scoffing at the people who are actualling trying to learn.

I've seen him blatantly bring his own drinks to a venue where the organizers have faced a large price increase on the hire of the room because 'dancers don't spend enough over the bar', then to add insult to injury leave his empty bottles behind for the organizers to explain to the managment!

He also got into some proper fisticuffs one night with another guy at a salsa club (never found out what it was all about).

After the incident yesterday, my hubby was talking to a couple of girls who I thought were his friends (but apparently he follows them about) and they said he actually broke someone's toe a couple of weeks ago at a salsa club :shock:

All in all, I don't think he's a very nice guy :shock:

Jambo, I was thinking about starting a new thread on this very topic, after hearing your story about your back injury and my own experience with the arm ripper on the same night. The elbow incident sounds terrible -- sorry you had a weekend like this!

I don't have a "do not dance with" list and I understand your hesitation. But after Friday I've been wondering if I should start telling some of the worst offenders something like: "I'm not sure -- the last time we danced, you were very rough and it was painful. I'll dance only if you promise me you'll be gentle this time". If they don't like it, then they don't have to ask me again, and I won't be heartbroken about it.

Another thing I've been thinking is, I need to learn to say "ouch! that hurts" *on the spot* when the leader is rough. That way he will know straight away that he's hurting you and that you are not happy. Unfortunately, this somehow doesn't come naturally to me so I'll need to practise -- there have been times when the leader hit me and I reacted by saying "sorry!" :roll:.

oh just blacklist him then and let as many people know as possible

do people (leaders and follows) not realise that if they behave like that, that in the long term no one will dance with them as their reputation will precede them....

edit: mac - my teacher here does the following
1) ouches immediately and does not apologise to him
2) breaks into shines - however one must be able to sustain several long minutes of shines for this to work well

thing is - i'm not sure subtle hints work such as "please dance gentle" (not that that is really subtle) if the guy has an ego - the "instructor" i danced with the other day, i told him (before i knew he was one) i'd only dance if he danced in a small space - crowded club and from observing him he was not watching his space at all - he then proceeded to dance and beat me and everyone in his vicinity up .....what do you do? i'd already asked him.....??

MacMoto said:

there have been times when the leader hit me and I reacted by saying "sorry!" :roll:.

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:lol: I've done that!! Why do we do it in a 'sorry my face got in the way of your fist' type of way? :shock:

Give us a clue as to who your arm ripper was, let's see if it was the same one

irishgirl said:

oh just blacklist him then and let as many people know as possible

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I'm gonna do just that and I think word will spread fast . I may even consider telling him next week what I think of his lack of concern, but without pulling him to one side like I would normally do, just to see what his reaction will be (in front of witnesses ), I get the feeling it won't be pretty.

Dear Jambo,

My only advice is to avoid this guy.

It isn't your job to "reform" him or even inform him that hitting you (or anyone else) shouldn't go overlooked.

Honestly, the way you describe him makes him sound somewhat disturbed and potential trouble. It is best to distance yourself from such characters, IMO.

Thanks for the advice memito, so I shouldn't say anything then? Maybe you're right, it could just be asking for trouble.

I think I kknow the move he might have been trying to do: turn your back to your partner, do an open break and the idea is that you lead your partner past your right side, meet her palm with yours and push her back to hert starting position - repeat ad nauseum until you lead her all the way along your right side. It is fraught with potential injury and it depends entirely on getting your timing right. To my eternal shame I once gave my wife a black eye with this move - I could get into the reasons why this wasn't entirely my fault, but not here, because it bloody hurts when it goes wrong and the leader should be sure he can lead it properly. LUckily I've never connected my elbow with anyone else.

Guys have to learn to step with the beat - I've seen many trying to lead complicated routines while dancing to their own tune as they seem unaware that a beat exists at all.

Really sorry for your injury - guys like this are never worth dancing with.

In class, one guy stepped on my ankle above the bone and I was out of commission for about 2 weeks. I was upset with that guy, because in my opinion, he has no business being on the dance floor. He has no coordination at all. BTW, I wasn't dancing with him, but next to him.

One of the guys I enjoy dancing with elbowed me in the eye accidentally. I leaned forward as he was lifting his hand. Anyway, my first response was to laugh - I thought it was the funniest thing. He was very apologetic and was very sorry for weeks after. Of course, being the brat that I am, I kept rubbing it in. And to top it off, my eye bothered me for a week or so. My doc gave me eye drops to help. :-D

My attitude was different b/c of skill level of the guys involved and the fact that the second guy was sorry for what had happened.

I say stay away from that dude and if he asks you to dance in the future, just tell him no. If he asks why, then by all mean let him have it.

Gosh, Jambo. That's awful! :cry: The guy should be flogged! :evil: I do think he should be told. Some people are just not aware and sometimes just need to be addressed. Mac's suggestion is a good one if he should ever ask to dance with you again:

For worst offenders, something like: "I'm not sure -- the last time we danced, you were very rough and it was painful. I'll dance only if you promise me you'll be gentle this time". If they don't like it, then they don't have to ask me again, and I won't be heartbroken about it.

How is your head now Jambo?

I don't understand why you would say yes for many weeks/months. And that is just for a rough leader with poor timing. Dancers improve. Obviously you can see if his is being rough, or on time, and if he continues dancing as such, why would you keep dancing with him?

By the content of your posts Jambo you are a very nice dancer and don't seem to have a problem finding dances.

But given this guy's attitude after he hit you, I wouldn't be saying yes for a very long time. Attitudes can change, but usually not overnight.

I can't understand such disregard for anyone that you interact with. Whether that is the couple behind you, who decided to do an open break at the same time as you, resulting in a bump (small "eep, sorry"). Or it was your partner and you fluffed a move, feeling a small jerk as you overextend her arm ("are you ok?").

If I'd elbowed my partner in the forehead, with the sort of force you are talking about, I think I would apologise, ask them if they were ok, and assume that they really weren't, no matter what they say, and just do basics to the end when I can escort them off the floor, apologise again, and ideally let her friends know what happened. If she had come alone then I suppose I would stay chatting until I knew if she was "ok" or needed medical attention. The last thing you want to happen is her feeling a bit funny, going to the ladies room and passing out!!!

Jambo said:

Now then, I never say no to a dance but I wouldn't want to dance with this guy ever again, not because he made a mistake but because he couldn't have cared less about whether I was ok or not. If he did ever ask me again, should I tell him exactly why I don't want to? I'm not used to saying no

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Don't be so BRITISH! Put him on the Do Not Dance list, and if he asks you again shout "you've got a bloody nerve! do you know what you did last time?!".

The funny thing is that within a day or two, every girl in the country will know what a horrid person this dancer is, but nobody will tell HIM!

sweavo said:

Jambo said:

Now then, I never say no to a dance but I wouldn't want to dance with this guy ever again, not because he made a mistake but because he couldn't have cared less about whether I was ok or not. If he did ever ask me again, should I tell him exactly why I don't want to? I'm not used to saying no

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Don't be so BRITISH! Put him on the Do Not Dance list, and if he asks you again shout "you've got a bloody nerve! do you know what you did last time?!".

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I've got to say that response is appealling. When I've been knocked in the past I've always had an appology and I never mention it again, making the guy feel guilty about it after the event is just cruel and unnessassary, I'm thinking too much about how I would normally deal with such knocks rather than how I should be dealing with this plonker in particular. I've got to remind myself that the main issue here isn't the injury but the lack of appology so I should be perfectly entitled to mention it until I get an appology. Hell freezing over springs to mind.

peachexploration said:

Gosh, Jambo. That's awful! :cry: The guy should be flogged! :evil: I do think he should be told. Some people are just not aware and sometimes just need to be addressed. Mac's suggestion is a good one if he should ever ask to dance with you again:

For worst offenders, something like: "I'm not sure -- the last time we danced, you were very rough and it was painful. I'll dance only if you promise me you'll be gentle this time". If they don't like it, then they don't have to ask me again, and I won't be heartbroken about it.

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Oh he was aware alright, I'm pretty sure it must have hurt his elbow too, hmmm wonder if he was expecting me to appologize for hurting his elbow with my head :lol: