Finding the key to a salsa tune (for musicians)

E

El Conguero

Hi all,

This is basically a new phrasing for an old post... or rather a different question along the same lines. I have been talking about writing music and had asked about how to create melodies to accompany montunos etc.

Well the new question would be: how do you find the key of a song? Because montunos are so "all over the place" on the piano it's hard to tell. The root note changes a lot and chord progressions can be really elaborate (including a few i've come up with lol). But I think if I can figure out the key of a progression I might be able to put together a good melody / vocal part. Any suggestions or comments from you other musicians out there?

Thanks!
El Conguero :D
 
El Conguero said:
Hi all,

This is basically a new phrasing for an old post... or rather a different question along the same lines. I have been talking about writing music and had asked about how to create melodies to accompany montunos etc.

Well the new question would be: how do you find the key of a song? Because montunos are so "all over the place" on the piano it's hard to tell. The root note changes a lot and chord progressions can be really elaborate (including a few i've come up with lol). But I think if I can figure out the key of a progression I might be able to put together a good melody / vocal part. Any suggestions or comments from you other musicians out there?

Thanks!
El Conguero :D
Click to expand...

Interesting question, indeed... I actually had to deal with it for some of the patterns I have created in the SBM, like montuno part from Tequila or from Nadie Como Ella by Anthony. I just took the first chord and assumed that its root key is the key of the whole progression, you can also look at the bass line for a cue.

For Instance, in Nadie Como Ella, the chords played in order are:
C minor,
some variation of A-Sharp major,
then G-Sharp major,
finally G major...

I remember it also fits well with the melody of the trumpets. So I don't even know if I did this well, but it sounds like the right key for that song.

For "La Pantera Mambo", I just tried playing some chords on the keyboard along with the song, and I think I found A-minor fits the most, if I figured this well there's a transition between A-minor and G-major, something similar to the "Montuno 3" pattern in the SBM
 
Listen to the bass. The bass player will always tell you what key you're in because he's playing the root notes much of the time. You just have to figure out if it's major or minor key after that, but that should be obvious (I hope).
 
Thanks!

I'll definitely have to try this. The bass thing makes sense, because the bass usually plays a "1-5-octave" type thing and the 1/octave would probably be the key. I haven't heard eitehr of those songs but I'll also check out the montuno you mentioned on SBM (which once again I think is awesome). :)
 
El Conguero said:
I'll definitely have to try this. The bass thing makes sense, because the bass usually plays a "1-5-octave" type thing and the 1/octave would probably be the key. I haven't heard eitehr of those songs but I'll also check out the montuno you mentioned on SBM (which once again I think is awesome). :)
Click to expand...

Yeah and if you're following the bass, remember that chord progressions are often things like II-V-I so listen for when it feels like it's come "home" rather than picking the chord at the start of the phrase.
 
sweavo said:
Yeah and if you're following the bass, remember that chord progressions are often things like II-V-I so listen for when it feels like it's come "home" rather than picking the chord at the start of the phrase.
Click to expand...
That's true, not every progression begins on the I chord.

But the "bread 'n butter" chord progression in latin music is the "I-IV-V":
||:I-IV|V-IV:||
in the key of C major these are the chords (each chord gets two beats):
||:Cmaj-Fmaj|G7-Fmaj:||
"Agua de Clavelito" uses this progression, but in the key of F (you know, "que chévere, que chévere"). Can also be in a minor key, like Palmieri's "Vamanos P'al Monte".

A more involved common progression in latin music are the eight bar "Autumn Leaves" changes:
||:ii|V|I|IV|vii|iii7|vi|VI7:||
In the key of A minor (each chord gets four beats):
||: Dm7|G7|Cmaj7|Fmaj7|Bm7(b5)|E7(b9)|Amin|A7(b9) :||

Like Sweavo said, you'll feel "home" when you get to the Amin chord, in the seventh bar. I'm having a "senior moment" and can't think of any songs of the top of my head that use this progression.

But, having said all that, there are a million and one chord progression possibilities...
 
Wow, only a million and one? :D

I get what you're saying about not starting on the 1. I think most tend to start on the 2 or the 4, but the main thing I think will be finding the 1. Anyway thanks to both of you and also to groovetpt for the progressions. They're slightly different from teh ones I've come up with but I'm definitely going to have to try them out! :)
 
Fruko El Preso

On the same topic, in "El Preso" by Fruko, there's a place where the piano plays a pattern similar to the timbales Cáscara. The chords there are:

G-Cmin-Fmin-G

I tend to think however, that the key of the song is C, so the progression here would be V-I-IV-V.

Can anybody here confirm this ?
 
Well... that's kind of tricky because salsa is pretty complicated...

Usually songs will follow the pattern of:

I ii iii IV V vi vii*

1, 4, 5 are majors, 2, 3, 6 are minors, and 7 is diminished. So my non-expert way of figuring out the key is to look at the major chords... In a song that follows basic music theory, you can only have 3 major chords, and two of them are next to each other. Using that you can figure out most of the pop songs. Like if there's an A and a B, that must be IV and V, therefore it's probably in the key of E.

But unfortunately, song can and do change keys, so you'll just have to recognize that. Usually the transition/bridge could be in a different key, or sometimes the verse/chorus are in different keys. And that's not all... chord substitution. That's something I don't fully understand. Like you could have an A# major in the key of C.

Stuff like this: The generic flamenco progression in Am: Am - G - F - E --- 3 majors next to each other!! Not allowed!! E is supposed to be Em!! But nope, that's perfectly fine because the G is raised to G# as a stronger leading tone, changing the Em chord to E.

I'm still struggling to understand this stuff.

Salsa4Fun: G-Cm-Fm-G doesn't seem like it's in C. Key of C will not have Fm or Cm, normally anyway, but there's probably some tricky music theory in there that I don't understand.
 
evilquesadilla said:
Salsa4Fun: G-Cm-Fm-G doesn't seem like it's in C. Key of C will not have Fm or Cm, normally anyway, but there's probably some tricky music theory in there that I don't understand.
Click to expand...

evilquesadilla, when I wrote Cm or Fm I meant that these C and F are minors, I think you misinterpreted this... Do the markings Cm and Fm have a different meaning than saying these chords are minors ?
 
All I know is, to me any good montuno gets old after awhile. It can drive me nuts! que me vuelve loco :D lol

Here's the thing: I know and can play some awesome montunos, but it's not like on the guitar where you can play the whole song w/three chords - on the piano you can do C-D-G-D or C-F-G-F or any other combination that sounds cool - but after you've played it 2-4 times what then? That is where I am stuck.

Let's say I do the G-Cm-Fm-G progression for a minute (or more like 30 seconds lol) - does the song have to switch keys to accomodate another progression? Or does it just stick new chords between the G's? I hope that makes sense. :)

Thanks in advance 4 your help :D
 
salsa4fun said:
evilquesadilla, when I wrote Cm or Fm I meant that these C and F are minors, I think you misinterpreted this... Do the markings Cm and Fm have a different meaning than saying these chords are minors ?
Click to expand...

Yeah, Cm chord is C minor chord... Okay I think I figured it out...

The three chords you mentioned:

Cm - C Eb G
Fm - F Ab C
G - G B D

There's both D and Eb, and there's G and Ab. Based on that, the only scale that have those notes is the Eb major scale. So using that circle of fifth thing, my guess this song is in the key of C minor.
 
salsa4fun said:
On the same topic, in "El Preso" by Fruko, there's a place where the piano plays a pattern similar to the timbales Cáscara. The chords there are:

G-Cmin-Fmin-G

I tend to think however, that the key of the song is C, so the progression here would be V-I-IV-V.

Can anybody here confirm this ?
Click to expand...
Yes, this song is in C minor. Sounds like a simple i-iv-V progression to me.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top