Learning musicality

J

jayzen

hi all

looking for tips, advise, lessons to share on the above.

am finally on the verge of restarting classes (teaching classes that is) after a short hiatus due to work...yeah...that 9-5 thingy....

aside from all the usual things about being a good and safe salsa dancer (i.e. watch ur space, watch ur partner, lead-follow well), I'm very very keen on imparting a strong sense of musicality/appreciation of music to my potential students so that they go out there and dance as opposed to churning out patterns. main reason is, myself, i cannot dance w/o following the music, as without music, there is no dance, just movement.

what have you guys done or experienced that have helped either urself or your students, recognising the fact that we are all different and learn differently.

thanks! many many thanks in advance

jayzen
 
Jayz, it has been a journey with different pitstops for me so far. The tumbao attracted me first, then the clave, then the timbales, and my current craze is to find the conga slaps and accentuate them. So I think breaking down the different instrumentation is a good way to start for most people. After all, the music does seem like a madcap of confusion to most first-time listeners.

Also, could perhaps distinguish between the different styles of music (eg. NY, PR etc) and the different instruments that each of them usually emphasise. Haha I realise this last sentence was what you used to show me, and now I'm paraphrasing it.. :p
 
jayzen said:
aside from all the usual things about being a good and safe salsa dancer (i.e. watch ur space, watch ur partner, lead-follow well), I'm very very keen on imparting a strong sense of musicality/appreciation of music to my potential students so that they go out there and dance as opposed to churning out patterns. main reason is, myself, i cannot dance w/o following the music, as without music, there is no dance, just movement.

what have you guys done or experienced that have helped either urself or your students, recognising the fact that we are all different and learn differently.
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At the recent MamboCity congress, there was a workshop on "music interpretation" aimed at the intermediate level, and the response from the leaders attending it was generally very positive. My first teacher in Glasgow (Dr Salsa) also did a similar "musicality" workshop once after the normal class times. Perhaps you could try something like that?

In these workshops, the teacher would basically explain that salsa music tend to follow a set pattern, and by listening to the music you can begin to anticipate the changes. The teacher would then play sample music, highlight how it builds up and demonstrate how it looks really cool when you change your dance to fit the music (close hold basic and simple smooth stuff at first -> more dynamic moves when the song gets going -> break up for shines for percussion solos etc.). Then the teacher could play the same music again so the students can try it themselves. You could do this with different pieces of music for variety.

Since you would be spending the whole hour without teaching any moves, this type of class would work better as an extra workshop rather than part of normal classes, but maybe if enough of your students are interested in it, maybe you can offer it as part of your intermediate+ class course.

Good luck! :)
 
I would support the suggestion from MacMoto. Some month ago I participated in such a "musicality" workshop at a congress. The workshop helped me a lot to understand and interpret the music. I've noticed that I start to listen in a different way to the music, then before. Also I start to listen more closely to the different instruments and try to pick one and follow it. So I think such a workshop as MacMoto described can be a good foundation to develop "musicality".
 
jayzen

remember thomas's (santo rico) workshop from the MSF - you were there weren't you?

He broke the song down into the intro, then the verse, then the chorus, then verse, chorus, then you get a repeat of the intro again which means the song is nearly over, then there might be a final something or other and then the end....

although it was just one short workshop I know i listen out for it (mostly when i'm suffering in horrible dances and i'm trying to figure out when its going to end!!!)

But that might be one place to start.
Also maybe taking a very commonly played piece at Union and breaking it down and as suggested showing different things that can be done at different breaks/sections of the music and get them to try and recreate/come up with their own stuff for that song.

Maybe starting on one song where they "know" what to do will make them more aware of other songs over time...?
 
jayzen,
How about getting students to form groups of 4 or 6 and making them clap to a particular song on different counts each time?. For example,
1) Group 1 will clap on 123 567
2) Group 2 will clap on 23 567
3)Group 3 will clap on 4 and 8
4) Group 4 will clap on 123 67
5) Group 5 will clap on 8 and 1

You can have them alternate the counts. You can do this for 15 minutes everytime u start the class. make sure u dont prolong this as the class will get boring then.

my instructor used this method and still uses them i believe...
 
hi all

thanks for the musicality workshop suggestion. always a good one that.

haha, thanks narcosis, irishgirl for giving it back to me :tongue:

sac, good idea but missed the point. I'm not so much as concerned about getting the beats, but interpreting the music. not to say that beats are important but not the point of this discussion.

one of my main gripes is that when u step into a club and watch, 90% of dancers don't dance to the music. it's all about moves or repetition of some styling or shines or body movement that they've learnt.

as such, to give this discussion abit more focus, is to find out ways and means based on experiences of others, to include this musicality "training/appreciation" as part of the standard course as opposed to one-off workshops.

to quote a phrase - "train 'em 'young'"



jayzen
 
jayzen said:
sac, good idea but missed the point. I'm not so much as concerned about getting the beats, but interpreting the music. not to say that beats are important but not the point of this discussion.

one of my main gripes is that when u step into a club and watch, 90% of dancers don't dance to the music. it's all about moves or repetition of some styling or shines or body movement that they've learnt.
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Not to speak for Sac, but I think his suggestion would be good for those who don't dance to the music. The beats may not be the point, but they're the basis to understanding everything else. Salsa music can be confusing, with all its layers, but having a good understanding of the underlying beats helps.

Once you have that basis, it becomes easier to "interpret" the music. Otherwise you're still trying to count the beats, when ideally it should just be something that comes naturally, without thinking.

But I think I understand what you're saying... once you have the beats down, it's not enough to just make sure you're in time to the music. The dance should have feeling. I think this comes from becoming more comfortable with the music, and more comfortable in your own dancing ability.

Suggest to your students that they listen to salsa music outside of class. And perhaps before you really get into patterns and technique, try to have your students learn to move. Take some ideas from a modern dance class, where it's all about feeling the music and just moving to it. Ask your students what emotions the music brings up. Darken the room a bit and tell them to each pretend he or she is the only one there and just DANCE, however he or she feels is appropriate. It's not an easy thing to do; it feels so silly! However, anything to get them comfortable with music and movement in general is good.

Just make sure to balance all this out with a good dose of partner exercises, so that they don't become a dancer who is so lost in the music they forget everything else! :D
 
Natural RedHead said:
...it's not enough to just make sure you're in time to the music. The dance should have feeling. I think this comes from becoming more comfortable with the music, and more comfortable in your own dancing ability.
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100% Agreed.

Natural RedHead said:
Suggest to your students that they listen to salsa music outside of class. And perhaps before you really get into patterns and technique, try to have your students learn to move.
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Yeah, I still listen to a lot of salsa 10 months after starting. It still helps.

Natural RedHead said:
Take some ideas from a modern dance class, where it's all about feeling the music and just moving to it. Ask your students what emotions the music brings up. Darken the room a bit and tell them to each pretend he or she is the only one there and just DANCE, however he or she feels is appropriate. It's not an easy thing to do; it feels so silly! However, anything to get them comfortable with music and movement in general is good.

Just make sure to balance all this out with a good dose of partner exercises, so that they don't become a dancer who is so lost in the music they forget everything else! :D
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Unfortunately, although your sentiment is spot on, this could alienate your leaders! Not all of them, but certainly some. Some older male salsa friends mentioned to me that they took classes with Irene Miguel (MamboLifestyle). Apparently she does a similar thing to what you are describing. Suffice to say, these guys don't want to take a class with her again! "Too wishy washy", "new agey rubbish". :D

I'm one of the most open minded people I know but I hate performing. I would find this sort of class a little uncomfortable. It's something that you need to get comfortable doing on your own. (Or in a dark night club with non-salsa music ;))
 
hi Natural RedHead

interesting! I like the idea and I know it's not going to be everybody's cuppa but at least it's an idea to work on (can imagine the reaction that
Swannie descrived :lol: ) . thanks!

but yeah, i go to a club nowadays and when i watch the crowd dance...there's something missing. sure, lots of energy and enthusiasm but no....feeling. it's like the music is not even there....

oh one thing, when i say 'young', i was refering more to the salsa age and not actual physical/real world/calendar age :tongue:

was talking to somebody once..i think lautaro from Swiss-land on musicality (man, he's one musical lead). aside from how to do it, i think another key question is when.....

btw, anybody fr new york/new jersey can share their thots cos, from what i noticed, alot of new york on2 dancers seem very in sync with the music? note, no dis to anybody that everybody else dun dance musical!


thanks

jayzen
 
jayzen said:
btw, anybody fr new york/new jersey can share their thots cos, from what i noticed, alot of new york on2 dancers seem very in sync with the music?
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Well, there are plenty that aren't. :roll: (Quad spin during a slow, romantic melody, anyone?)
But it's true there are also plenty that are. Lots, luckily.

I never heard of any classes specifically designed to teach musicality around here. If they happen, they don't seem to be well advertised.

I think musical dancers do reward each other via approval on the dance floor though, so that propagates 'feeling the music.' I think the most frequent compliment I've gotten on the floor is "Hey, you are really feeling it!" and it is so nice when you and your partner are interpreting something the same way and bouncing it back and forth between you. And when you see this happening all around you it is easy to pick up on it. So maybe even dancers who don't start out with an innate sense of musicality are more likely to pick it up when they have lots of role models to dance with and learn from. That's my guess anyway.

It's also possible that the large Latino contingent has something to do with it. I'd say a good 30-40% of the salsa community is Latino and a fair fraction of them have probably grown up listening to similar or related music, so they might start off with more of a sense of how to play with the beats and the melody.
 
Jayzen: Hmm... i think i might know u, and we dance before. If u are who i think u are... yr musicality and floor craft is one of a kind ;)

Yes i know exactly what u mean. Seldom find someone that actually dances to the music. Everyone is too busy executing routines.
 
Jay-- what you need to realise about many nyc dancers is this -- They grew up with access to the music ( in many cases ) 24 / 7. They frequently ( in many latino homes ) have music from local latino radio stations playing , where as the Anglos, do not get this exposure .

This not to say, by the way , that ALL latinos, have a complete understanding of the music and or the dance. On the contrary, many of my students in the states , were latinos . In one latino club in which I gave free weekly classes,it was not uncommon to have 40 / 50 who did not have a clue .

You would see the same quality of dancer in Chicago ,Miami , etc, all which have large hispanic populations .

PS A lot of those " non latino guys and gals " can also hold their own !!!
 
Santo Rico came and gave music appreciation workshop and i think ppl still "don't get it". I guess u have to be at a certain level or be able to appreciate music to a certain extend to interpret a dance.
And of course u must know yr moves well or else u will be thinking at the same time how else are u going to do so many things at one go.

eg: Think of routines/partnerwork/shines, lead on time, watch dance space for yrself and the girl, all the above and dance to the music?! It's just a 4 min song ;) hehe.. BUT yes! it's still achievable =>
 
hi fallenangel

er...me jason, singapore-based. have we met? :D

if u r in singapore, should know me. usually at entrance of USq. DJ-d abit at Union

if in malaysia, might have seen me a few times in KL, other than at MSF

u?


jayzen
 
hi all,

granted, the "home" language advantage :D

but you are right, there are some who still can't dance to their own music hahaha

how how how :tongue:


jayzen
 
Terence2 said:
PS A lot of those " non latino guys and gals " can also hold their own !!!
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I definitely agree - lots of musical dancers who are not Latino - but I suspect that a lot of it is that a newcomer to salsa with a bent for musicality will 'pick up' the specific feel of salsa from watching and dancing with people who *have* been exposed to the music from a very early age.

Some people are just not very musical - plenty of Latinos included. Others really are and, given the exposure, will pick it up quickly. I suspect the musicality propagates through from the musical-Latino population to the musically oriented-nonLatino population and keeps spreading from there.

So what's the solution for Singapore's dance population? Dunno. Group trip to New York perhaps? ;)
 
heheh, you think i can get Trump to sponsor a trip for 50 salseros from Singapore? You know, 50 econ flights, 1 weekend's accommodation? :tongue:

well, truth is, have to be done slowly. what i've been trying to do is, outside class, amongst the interms and above who are more confident of their dancing (be it lead or follow), to slow down and listen to the music.

to play with the music and interact with their partner. (play with your partner sounds ... wrong :tongue:)

other than that....


jayzen
 
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