Too much shinin'

[RugKutta]

This is directed more towards the salseros/leaders, but anybody can throw their 50 cents in if they like. I should give yall fair warning, I'm pretty long winded w/ my posts, if you haven't noticed already :)

Have any of 'yall ever danced w/ a lady who wanted to solo too much? This past Saturday night I was dancing lady who was very good, but she seemed to want to take control and shine all the time. It seemed as if she was more interested in dancing solo than dancing w/ me. Right from the jump, she seemed to break away by herself and start soloing. (Please correct me if I'm wrong yall, but I thought the follower should wait until the leader gave her the opportunity). I had run into this problem once before. I had asked a lady to dance who I knew was way more advanced than me, and she started soloing at every little opportunity. I don't think it was her intention, but I couldn't help but think she was bored w/ me. I quickly got bored myself. She could dance and all don't get me wrong, but I'm not much of a shiner, so I feel kinda stupid sitting there going thru the same moves by myself while she's workin' it out and looking good by herself.

Anyway, back to the main story. 1/4 thru the dance, I started feeling the same way that I did when I danced w/ the girl I just mentioned. I was like, "It's nice watching her dance, but I could just as easliy watch her dance w/ someone else". But then I remembered something a lady told me once at the end of the dance: "Don't be afraid to take control of the lady while you're dancing". At that point I realized that if I was going to enjoy myself on this song, I was going to have to take control. So I did. I had to lead her alot stronger than I normally did, but it worked out. As it turned out, she said she had alot of fun after that. She thanked me and told me to save her another dance later.

On another note, dancing w/ this particular salsera gave me an idea for another problem. A few dances earlier, I was dancing w/ a lady who I had danced w/ before. Now I've seen that this girl can dance (and is quite attractive too), but every time I dance w/ this girl, she seems to be very nonchalant about dancing w/ me, like she was either bored, didn't want to dance but didn't want to say no either, or was tired. But when I see her dance w/ other guys she seems alot more upbeat and into the dance. So I'm thinking to myself, "come on now, I can't be THAT bad that you don't want to dance w/ me. What's tha deal?" After dancing w/ the other lady I mentioned earlier, I relized she's probably responding to my personality & my lead. I'm naturally a shy, timid person, which I've grown out of considerably since I've been dancing, but it still shows sometimes. I guess she was used to being spun and whipped around alot by more experienced guys, so when she got to me, she became laid back and nonchalant because I wasn't giving her a strong enough lead. I haven't danced w/ her since, but next time I'll test my theory out and see what happens.

Luv, Peace, and SALSA,

Myron

[borikenSalsero]

I used to go to a school that taught the ladies to break away and solo shine if they felt that the lead wasn't going to give them what they were looking for... whatever that means to them... Well, when I was learning there, I noticed that this one top salsera always broke away from me when we danced, come to find out later when she told me what she'd been taught. :evil:

Some other girls really just want to do their thing too, especially if they are advanced, here in NY City it isn't uncommon to see a couple go long lengths of the song soloing.

However, in my opinion if the skilled dancers sees that the less skilled dancer is having difficulty, they must, go to the rescue and help them find a place where they feel better, and that usually is doing partner work. I can't stand when I see things as you have experienced happen. I love shines, but I won't do them at the cost of the lady.


But also keep in mind exactly what you have mentioned, you can feel when a person is timid, that being the case a lot of people usually react by being timid themselves, hence, holding back. If you aren't sure of yourself, how can the follow feel sure of you?

I know this one girl, who used to hold back so much when we danced that I stopped dancing with her, because she taught she was too good for me, but after seeing how I dance, now she looks at me drooling wanting to get a dance, well, no way Jose, you held back then, now I'm hodling really really really back! Now, she better ask me if she wants to dance again.

Be direct, accurate, and secure about what you do when you dance, that confidence, which comes from experience will translate into girls wanting to dance with you. Don't think of what you don't know, but rather what you do know and how well you do it... That little bit can go a long way!

[danceguy]

*-*

[peachexploration]

Any other leaders that would like to comment?

[sagitta]

Okay. I have noticed some of these things too. I really don't like giving a firm and strong lead and have never wanted to. That's just the way it is with me. However, when I do immediately I notice a change in the follower, even the regulars whom I dance with. And they tell me. For instance, you have such a strong clear lead in cha cha but are laid back in salsa. It's the music. Cha cha cha has always been a more aggressive dance for me, thus I am assertive and if I am really excited go really wild. Two Tuesdays ago this live band came to play and they always play cha cha chas, and ones that I like. i was so out there...doing my thing and even challenging the ladies to show their stuff. And this is the first time that I did that. Of course if I felt that the follower was feeling not there I didn't just strut away.

There are many who desire a strong lead and I hate giving that. It takes energy away from me that I think should go into the partnership and moving to the music. Perhaps why I do a lot of simple stuff?

[Miami Rueda dancer]

Its quite all right. That girl doesn't want to dance with you? ok. do your thing with another attractive girl one that doens't need to shine too much. :D just wait. she sees you doing twisty arm movements and backflips and all that other stuff... ask her again :D I personally am very assertive with my partner and still keep smiling. can't let them lead you. YOU are the leader :!:

[peachexploration]

.... I haven't danced w/ her since, but next time I'll test my theory out and see what happens....So RugKutta, did you ever test your theory?

I've noticed something lately about my own dancing. I really don't care for shines. It's probably has to do with my desire to increase my skills in partner dancing since I've always had problems there due to the kind of instruction I've received in the past. Don't get me wrong, I think shines are an important tool in order to learn, particularly the technicalities of the music BUT since Salsa is a partner dance, I'd rather put at least 75% of my focus on partner dancing while in class. Outside of class, even less.

[Martialdog]

I FEEL YOUR PAIN BUDDY!

I have a girl friend who I dance with who wants to try out moves she's been thinking off and doesnt wait for the me to instigate the solo. She's notoriously bad at following too. Its annoying but she's lovely so I let her off :D

I think its a bit of impatience/boredom/resistance to being lead from the follower or an impulse to solo freestyle in a song where they know solo works well.

Does this happen if you try to wrap up your partner very fast? sometimes that is read by followers as a sign to spin out from the partner into a solo.

I'm going through a phase of realling enjoying learning new tricky solo moves so more than happy if a girl decides to go solo 8)

Good luck Rug, let us know how you get on!

[lolita]

[quote="peachexploration
I've noticed something lately about my own dancing. I really don't care for shines. It's probably has to do with my desire to increase my skills in partner dancing since I've always had problems there due to the kind of instruction I've received in the past. Don't get me wrong, I think shines are an important tool in order to learn, particularly the technicalities of the music BUT since Salsa is a partner dance, I'd rather put at least 75% of my focus on partner dancing while in class. Outside of class, even less.[/quote]

AHA.. same Here

[amrimi]

Luv, Peace, and SALSA,


I just saw this and I liked it so much I just had to do a T-Shirt with this one on it. :bouncy:

[salseralon]

Im not trying to hijack this thread, but its really bugging me, is it just me who can never see danceguys posts, whenever i see him post its just this '*_*' has my comp got a problem or something?

[peachexploration]

Im not trying to hijack this thread, but its really bugging me, is it just me who can never see danceguys posts, whenever i see him post its just this '*_*' has my comp got a problem or something?No, nothing wrong with your computer. Danceguy removed his posts. :)

[salseralon]

Ahh ok, thanks for clearing that up 4 me Peach i was gettin baffled by it, sorry to go off topic!

[mambo_LR]

I guess I'm on the other extreme from a lot of guys, but I hate :evil: dancing with the occasional lady that doesn't give me anything at all in terms of shines. Maybe it's because I'm a footwork fanatic, but it irks me to see the lady I'm dancing with just marching back and forth on a basic.... but that's just me...

marcos

[peachexploration]

Hi Mambo_LR! Welcome to Salsa Forums. :) Yeah, I agree that there is such a thing as "too little" when it comes to shinning. But as a follow, I will at least wait until the lead gives me a signal. I think that's what is bothering RugKutta. Anyways, happy to have you here. :)

[mambo_LR]

OK, that's definitely understandable.... I suppose I misunderstood something at first, but it does seem that the follower should follow the leader's cues, whether it's partnerwork or temporarily separating for shines... Thanks for the welcome....

[memphis salsero]

Too much Shinin! I dont believe there is such a thing!

[dontcareon123]

Arnt shines meant to be done to the music? Shining a whole song either means you cant be listening to the music or your just playing.

[peachexploration]

Arnt shines meant to be done to the music? Shining a whole song either means you cant be listening to the music or your just playing.or really want to dance alone. :lol: I agree DC123. If you're shining the whole song then something is not right. :(

[salsachinita]

Well, I have a friend who is fabulous at shines/solo and puts on a show everwhere she goes :D ....... we all LOVE watching her.

....but then I noticed that she doesn't get asked very often :shock: ....

(everybody know who she is......she's a local legend in my side of woods)

They told me that she dosn't really follow.......

Which reminded me of something else; we grew up with the old-school idea that if people break away to do solo/shines excessively (ie. NOT called for by the music), they really don't enjoy dancing with you (and yes, we also do it when the guy becomes too sleazy & you just don't want to walk halfway through a dance :roll: ).

I remembered dancing with this other local legend, years ago, when he considered a dance with him be a priveledge :roll: ....... he just LOVED to solo/shine.

I fixed his ego by simply dancing my way over to the closest chair and simply sat down (making it all part of the song :P ). He was like :shock: :shock: :shock: and never did that to me again 8) !

[memphis salsero]

Ok I would never shine an entire song for one because I'm not good enough to, and two I dont think many women would want to dance with me, but I really dont agree with saying you're not listening to the music if you shine the entire time. Check out Frankie Martinez performance at videosalsa.com. I think it is brilliant. I've also seen some incredible dancers do it here in L.A. and ou'd be hard pressed to find many dancers who understand the music and their bodies more than some of these guys. I think it depends on the song, thats my 2 cents anyway , however I'm a white guy so I'm not sure my opinion counts :roll:

[peachexploration]

....Check out Frankie Martinez performance at videosalsa.com. I think it is brilliant. ...No doubt that Frankie gives a great "Performance" but we're speaking of social dancing. :) Nothing wrong with it if you're performing but in a social dance setting, why even ask someone to dance with you if you're going to be shining the whole song. May as well dance alone.

[dontcareon123]

I have found that some followers dont listen to the music changes and just keep on shining and also keep doing same shine over and over again
and dont comeout which makes it hard to pick em up again.


Also danced with one lady who did cuban style who always took off & expected you 2 chase her round room very annoying! :x

[memphis salsero]

Well that way you have someone there just in case you get tired of shining! Just kidding, that is a good point. I have seen people here in L.A. that kind of play with each other while they shine. I dont really know how to explain that but its definately fun to watch. [/quote]

[EMOYENO]

Which reminded me of something else; we grew up with the old-school idea that if people break away to do solo/shines excessively (ie. NOT called for by the music), they really don't enjoy dancing with you (and yes, we also do it when the guy becomes too sleazy & you just don't want to walk halfway through a dance :roll: ). In classes I was taught it was fun. I dont do a lot of shines, because I tend to forget them (not enough practice). I do like shines!!! But Yes, on ocassion when a guy is too sleazy I break away and dont let him touch me much.



I remembered dancing with this other local legend, years ago, when he considered a dance with him be a priveledge :roll: ....... he just LOVED to solo/shine.

I fixed his ego by simply dancing my way over to the closest chair and simply sat down (making it all part of the song :P ). He was like :shock: :shock: :shock: and never did that to me again 8) ! :uplaugh:

[EMOYENO]

on the same subject... anyone know of some good videos that they can post for shines??? I'm curious... I now have a "shine" interest!!!

[wonderwoman]

I still can't shine but sometimes breaking away is nice.. I can breathe for a minute! So what if I just do a basic and watch him do his thing?

[wonderwoman]

on the same subject... anyone know of some good videos that they can post for shines??? I'm curious... I now have a "shine" interest!!!

I am long overdue for learning some myself, need to hook up with one of the female instructors in my area soonish.

[chrisk]

on the same subject... anyone know of some good videos that they can post for shines??? I'm curious... I now have a "shine" interest!!!

May I suggests as start our very own Shine Compilations? Look them at youtube and see how some of our members came up with wonderful creative shines to match their assigned section of the song.

[EMOYENO]

May I suggests as start our very own Shine Compilations? Look them at youtube and see how some of our members came up with wonderful creative shines to match their assigned section of the song. Good idea!!! I cant start a new thread not right now anyway... hope someone takes the initiative!!

I use to not like shines, but because I was shy to do them + I never practiced them!! Now I can do one or two or even three!! So I want more!!

[sagitta]

Good idea on the shine compilations. Now interestingly on the topic of shines I introduced that idea in the two privates that I taught yesterday evening. The ladies talked of not liking to dance with one leader as he is selfish - shines a lot - even when the lady doesn't seem to be able to do much in terms of shines. In fact when if I was asked one distinguishing characteristic of his dance I would use a similar description...one of the few who spends a lot of time doing shines.

[chrisk]

Good idea!!! I cant start a new thread not right now anyway... hope someone takes the initiative!!


Another thread? Hm, would you like to take a look at the following threads that you might find helpful?

Are Shines Stupid? (http://www.salsaforums.com/showthread.php?t=16344)
salsa shines -urgh (http://www.salsaforums.com/showthread.php?t=5021)
Shines or no shines? (http://www.salsaforums.com/showthread.php?t=11657)

[EMOYENO]

Another thread? Hm, would you like to take a look at the following threads that you might find helpful?

Are Shines Stupid? (http://www.salsaforums.com/showthread.php?t=16344)
salsa shines -urgh (http://www.salsaforums.com/showthread.php?t=5021)
Shines or no shines? (http://www.salsaforums.com/showthread.php?t=11657) need I say more?? :doh: thanks!! hahahaha *ready for that!! * :car:
shines for men: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mdyiwssa9pY&feature=related
for women: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfCyLHPMPcg&feature=related

[MMaatttt]

Sometimes it can be hard to work out how much to dance out of hold. The other weekend I was dancing some Salsaton and separated for some of the Regaton flavoured bits. I kept those bits short because I didn't want to put her under pressure, but later she told me that she had really enjoyed the chance to grove and relax.

[EMOYENO]

Sometimes it can be hard to work out how much to dance out of hold. The other weekend I was dancing some Salsaton and separated for some of the Regaton flavoured bits. I kept those bits short because I didn't want to put her under pressure, but later she told me that she had really enjoyed the chance to grove and relax. Nice!! I do like the separation.
I have asked the same question as a follower, how much time do I have, or how can I tell how much time will the lead give me to complete the shine?... That's why I try to do simple shines, on an 8 count, just in case.

[MMaatttt]

Nice!! I do like the separation.
I have asked the same question as a follower, how much time do I have, or how can I tell how much time will the lead give me to complete the shine?... That's why I try to do simple shines, on an 8 count, just in case.

I tend just to dance a bit of what ever I think will fit.I dance Cuban style, so I don't know"shines" as such. If my partner keeps eye contact, smiles and plays along I keep going so long as the music suggests, otherwise I go back to hold at the next appropriate point.

[EMOYENO]

See if anyone would like to add more videos &/or comment on the videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3CjBy5lbO0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_XLrZYEozM&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AId9xR7AoG8&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVUDUXWPYgc&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSLyfmQyTiA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8pDVDKZRq8&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjKYSHrWdYQ&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTEYLe8FmN4&feature=related

[chrisk]

See if anyone would like to add more videos &/or comment on the videos:

[snip lots of YouTube Clips]


If you want to start a collection of Shine Clips, then sorry, but this is the wrong section as you know. But even if you just want to discuss those clips, I would say this belongs into the VideoClips section. This thread should stay with the focus being on too much shining yes or no.

[crazygirl]

Nice!! I do like the separation.
I have asked the same question as a follower, how much time do I have, or how can I tell how much time will the lead give me to complete the shine?... That's why I try to do simple shines, on an 8 count, just in case.

Just relax and enjoy yourself. Keep eye contact, keep on beat and then the lead will pick you up when he's ready or when you show signs of looking for him. It's just dancing :D

[MMaatttt]

Nice!! I do like the separation.
I have asked the same question as a follower, how much time do I have, or how can I tell how much time will the lead give me to complete the shine?... That's why I try to do simple shines, on an 8 count, just in case.

I just realised that I completely didn't answer your question. I don't really have an amount of time in mind when I separate, I just see how it feels. Your comment is a great reminder to make sure I am not interrupting my partner when I decide to go back into hold. That probably didn't help much either :(