How is salsa different???

G

gabe0725

Changui
I have an interesting topic. See what we come up with. How is the salsa music, the salsa scene, salsa artist/musicians of today different from salsa from the 70's & maybe even the 80's?

I have a couple of examples but I wanna see what we come up with before I post my thoughts. Come on people! Participate!!!!
;)
 
I wasn't there to see it personally and come to think of it I probably didn't know there was a genre called latin music in the 70's and 80's.

From what I have heard about the past vs today here are the big changes, I am neither endorsing nor criticising, merely reporting observations.

1.Salsa has spread far and wide, but not deep.
2.Many dancers today prefer DJ over live band.
3.Salsa today attracts a much higher % of single (chronically single) urban professionals.
4.Salsa congresses are a big factor in shaping people's opinion on what is considered to be the best in dancing or performing.
5.There is a small but determined cadre of people who are interested in the history and cultural context of the dance and/or the music.
6.Salsa has fallen off the map with regard to music sales, major labels have dropped out.
7.Live shows in the US don't draw anywhere near the crowds of the past. Think about filling Yankee stadium or Madison Square Garden with a salsa music only event, could never happen today. It does happen in Colombia and Peru today (actually tomorrow at the super concert in Cali) and one of these days it will happen in Shanghai.
8.There are more salsa clubs per square mile in Tokyo than in NYC and LA combined.
9.There are more dance schools/performance companies in Cali Colombia than anywhere else in the world and by such a huge margin that the rest of the world will never catch up. {Estimates are over 300 dance schools - performance groups in a city of just 2.7 million. Thats one salsa performance company per 10,000 inhabitants. NYC would have to have 1800 salsa dance schools - performance companies to be equivalent.}

There is plenty more and as far as trends go, there are numerous threads here and in the just dance forum.
 
bailar y tocar said:
2.Many dancers today prefer DJ over live band.

3.Salsa today attracts a much higher % of single (chronically single) urban professionals.


4.Salsa congresses are a big factor in shaping people's opinion on what is considered to be the best in dancing or performing.


7.Live shows in the US don't draw anywhere near the crowds of the past. Think about filling Yankee stadium or Madison Square Garden with a salsa music only event, could never happen today. It does happen in Colombia and Peru today (actually tomorrow at the super concert in Cali) and one of these days it will happen in Shanghai.
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2 ... It depends on who the band is,, in the states, high profile still packs em in ( I,mmore of a DJ person but frequently in recent past, did the "live " thing.. way back, thats all we had !

3,, not in all locations in the states ( Tampa, Miami for e,g can be very family oriented on certain nites .

4... Most latinos dont even attend..

7.. some cities that have large venues, still pack to their capacity ( 2000 ) when name bands play . One has to consider, the states is still predominantly anglo.


On the rev. side of that coin, I have seen clubs where the latinos quit because of the "anglo" invasion .They are much more reverential about their culture .


But.. most of your points are very valid .
 
The main thing in New York City is that there are now very few clubs that have live salsa bands. In the early 1980's when I first came on the scene there was Broadway 96, The Corso, Happy Hills Casino, Ochentas, the Copa and a bunch of clubs up on Dyckman Street and several clubs downtown on 14th Street -- Casa Borinquen in Brooklyn and clubs on Queens Blvd. Working salsa bands were playing 5 nights a week, easily, with doubles and even triples on Friday and Saturday nights.

Now you have LQ on Wednesday nights and a few other places in Manhattan that might have live salsa one night a week. Jimmy Delgado runs a Wednesday night event at El Taller Boricua. The Copa hasn't even reopened yet. Then there are the clubs in Queens like Sarabanda, Chango, Extravaganza that have many of the soneros from the 70's/80's performing like Adalberto Santiago, Tony Vega, Jose Bello, Junior Gonzalez... These clubs mainly cater to the Colombian salsa crowd in NYC. There were recently a bunch of concerts at these clubs (also in New Jersey) for the Feria de Cali en Nueva York.
 
groovetpt said:
... These clubs mainly cater to the Colombian salsa crowd in NYC. There were recently a bunch of concerts at these clubs (also in New Jersey) for the Feria de Cali en Nueva York.
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There is a Feria de Cali en Nueva York ? Do you have any more info on this ? Is it an organized event or a loose coordination between a couple of clubs ?
 
bailar y tocar said:
I wasn't there to see it personally and come to think of it I probably didn't know there was a genre called latin music in the 70's and 80's.

From what I have heard about the past vs today here are the big changes, I am neither endorsing nor criticising, merely reporting observations.

1.Salsa has spread far and wide, but not deep.
2.Many dancers today prefer DJ over live band.
3.Salsa today attracts a much higher % of single (chronically single) urban professionals.
4.Salsa congresses are a big factor in shaping people's opinion on what is considered to be the best in dancing or performing.
5.There is a small but determined cadre of people who are interested in the history and cultural context of the dance and/or the music.
6.Salsa has fallen off the map with regard to music sales, major labels have dropped out.
7.Live shows in the US don't draw anywhere near the crowds of the past. Think about filling Yankee stadium or Madison Square Garden with a salsa music only event, could never happen today. It does happen in Colombia and Peru today (actually tomorrow at the super concert in Cali) and one of these days it will happen in Shanghai.
8.There are more salsa clubs per square mile in Tokyo than in NYC and LA combined.
9.There are more dance schools/performance companies in Cali Colombia than anywhere else in the world and by such a huge margin that the rest of the world will never catch up. {Estimates are over 300 dance schools - performance groups in a city of just 2.7 million. Thats one salsa performance company per 10,000 inhabitants. NYC would have to have 1800 salsa dance schools - performance companies to be equivalent.}

There is plenty more and as far as trends go, there are numerous threads here and in the just dance forum.
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bailar y tocar makes some great points!

1.Salsa has spread far and wide, but not deep. Definitely not "deep" in terms of cultural understanding, IMHO

2.Many dancers today prefer DJ over live band. IMHO, a lot of this has to do with the length of the songs. Dancers don't like being worn out by 10 minute songs. Bands have a time slots to fill with their sets and often don't have such an extensive number of songs in their repertoire, so many times they stretch out the songs to fill those time slots. Also, the quality of the band's sound is a factor.

3.Salsa today attracts a much higher % of single (chronically single) urban professionals. I agree, but don't believe that it as a negative.

4.Salsa congresses are a big factor in shaping people's opinion on what is considered to be the best in dancing or performing. Hmmmmm, not sure about this one. It could be the other way around. Perhaps the dancers want to hear a certain type of salsa and therefore congresses play it for them????

5.There is a small but determined cadre of people who are interested in the history and cultural context of the dance and/or the music. Related to point 1.

6.Salsa has fallen off the map with regard to music sales, major labels have dropped out. All genres have experienced this problem due to pirating and music sharing programs. Since salsa's market share always was low, perhaps it's market was hit harder than some others.

7.Live shows in the US don't draw anywhere near the crowds of the past. Think about filling Yankee stadium or Madison Square Garden with a salsa music only event, could never happen today. It does happen in Colombia and Peru today (actually tomorrow at the super concert in Cali) and one of these days it will happen in Shanghai. True, but "why"? Probably a combination of factors, including some listed here has caused this problem.

8.There are more salsa clubs per square mile in Tokyo than in NYC and LA combined. Interesting

9.There are more dance schools/performance companies in Cali Colombia than anywhere else in the world and by such a huge margin that the rest of the world will never catch up. {Estimates are over 300 dance schools - performance groups in a city of just 2.7 million. Thats one salsa performance company per 10,000 inhabitants. NYC would have to have 1800 salsa dance schools - performance companies to be equivalent.} Interesting.
 
I'll add to all of this that the music is simply different due to technological advances. For example, a radio host in New York, and good friend of mine, upon its release mentioned that the latest Spanish Harlem Orchestra cd was "too clean." It sounded too perfect. He agreed that the cd has some good songs, but didn't exactly like that it was so "clean."

This trend is readily observable with a lot of the "salsa dura" that bands are recording lately. This perfection has the effect of making a lot of the new salsa sound very similar. Producers need to be cognizant of this situation and be more creative and innovative with the overall sound, but especially the bridges, breaks, etcetera.

Newer salsa is much less jazzy; which is a quality that a lot of the more accomplished dancers appreciate in the music. The jazzy sound of salsa was very popular in the late '60s and '70s.

Also, newer salsa is much less percussive; which is another quality that a lot of the more accomplished dancers appreciate in the music.

Lastly, as in an article that was posted in salsaforums somewhere, the homage to African deities is absent from newer salsa. That trend essentially died quickly as the salsa industry sought to cross-over to mainstream audiences. No longer do we hear songs paying homage to Ochun, Yemaya, Obatala, etcetera.
 
El Caobo said:
I'll add to all of this that the music is simply different due to technological advances. For example, a radio host in New York, and good friend of mine, upon its release mentioned that the latest Spanish Harlem Orchestra cd was "too clean." It sounded too perfect. He agreed that the cd has some good songs, but didn't exactly like that it was so "clean."

This trend is readily observable with a lot of the "salsa dura" that bands are recording lately. This perfection has the effect of making a lot of the new salsa sound very similar. Producers need to be cognizant of this situation and be more creative and innovative with the overall sound, but especially the bridges, breaks, etcetera.

Newer salsa is much less jazzy; which is a quality that a lot of the more accomplished dancers appreciate in the music. The jazzy sound of salsa was very popular in the late '60s and '70s.

Also, newer salsa is much less percussive; which is another quality that a lot of the more accomplished dancers appreciate in the music.

Lastly, as in an article that was posted in salsaforums somewhere, the homage to African deities is absent from newer salsa. That trend essentially died quickly as the salsa industry sought to cross-over to mainstream audiences. No longer do we hear songs paying homage to Ochun, Yemaya, Obatala, etcetera.
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Or Chango... excellent post and I agree with everything you said here, El Caobo.

About SHO, yeah their recordings (and just about all recordings these days) sound too "clean". It has a lot to do with the technology in the studio. The musicians are every bit as good as the "old" days, if not better, and if you hear them play live they're smokin' and swingin' like crazy. But the recording process today just doesn't seem to allow the soul in, so to speak. Everything is auto-tuned so there are no imperfections in intonation, for example. OK, so there are older recordings where maybe one of the trumpets is badly out of tune at times with the other trumpet player -- but the tune went to press any way (maybe studio time ran out and there was no time for another take, or whatever). But there was a more organic feel and it didn't detract from the music and feeling, IMO.
 
bailar y tocar said:
There is a Feria de Cali en Nueva York ? Do you have any more info on this ? Is it an organized event or a loose coordination between a couple of clubs ?
Click to expand...
It's a very loosely organized event with little or no coordination between promoters. There's little advertising, which is mostly local to a particular club, at restaurants and stores where people interested will shop or eat, etc. This year, Sarabanda had Conjunto Clasico, for example, and Extravaganza had a tribute to Tito Gomez with several singers from Niche and Guayacan backed up by a local NY band. Turn out can be erratic, sometimes 50 people showing up in a club that holds 500 and the next night it's SRO. It happens the third week of December since all the singers have to be in Cali by Christmas.
 
Interesting posts but since I'm no dancer, I'll bring up a totally different fact or tidbet, whatever you wanna call it. Back in the day of mambo, Puente, Machito days & during the 70's, musicians had to be totally faithful to the bandleaders (their bosses). From what I've been told by other musicians, if a certian musician were playing for Puente lets say, and if he was offered to play and take the position for another leader, he would definitely lose his position with that 1st band that hired him to play. Supposedly old school band leader that still plays, still does this up to a certain point. My teacher, well my old teacher who is a very admired & respected percussionist accepted a gig for more money 1 night when he actually had a gig already lined up with this band leader, as a result the band leader found out & canned him outta the band. I've heard many other stories like this of musician loyalty which basically brings it to the point of each band having their own unique sound. It might be tougher on the bands financially wise but it would be better if it was still like this cuz then bands would have their own unique sound.
For me, this is the #1 difference that I could come up with.
 
gabe0725 said:
Back in the day of mambo, Puente, Machito days & during the 70's, musicians had to be totally faithful to the bandleaders (their bosses)
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That is the essence or root cause of what I posted here:
http://www.salsaforums.com/showthread.php?t=9383
The 1940's in Cuba, the 1960's in NY and again the 1990's in Cuba were different. Very talented musicians were extremely underpaid for a variety of reasons and the customers got the benefit.
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