Why, oh Why, Won't Anyone Dance with Me?

help! to give some background, i've been dancing for 13 years, been regularly asked to dance by some of the best dancers in the world, and always been told 'you're so light!'.

yet suddenly, i'm plague-woman. it's a relatively new scene to me (8 months), but i know everyone to say hi to now. i got through the first couple of quiet months where people dont know you, to a happy point where i was nearly getting my limbs ripped off by guys asking me at the same time, sharing me etc. yet now, suddenly, i'm only getting asked to dance every 4th song or so!

ok, i'm not a newbie, so i know the general rules:

stand in a good spot, smile and move to the music like you're keen to dance, dont sit down, always say yes to dance invitations
smell nice, but not overpoweringly perfumed and have minty breath
dress femininely and like you know what you're doing, including dance shoes
make eye contact and smile at guys who come towards you
ask guys for dances
be light to lead and dont prioritise styling over following
have fun and show your partner a good time, smile
thank your partner for the dance
say 'sorry' when your partner makes a leading error (i'm not proud, LOL)

i may have forgotten a couple, but trust me, by now i know them all. i've sought feedback from guys who used to ask me and dont anymore, and gotten none. so, i've run through this list in my head:

because i was dancing so much with one particular 'alpha' guy, that guys think i only want to dance with him?
whether some guys dance with girls to flirt (and ultimately get laid), and theyve now know i dont do that - except for OTT flirting in the dance itself? ;
whether i was styling too much, and that was making my following slow and heavy?
maybe cuz sometimes people watch me dance and it makes some guys nervous?
i've heard guys are intimidated by my 'great dancing' (but since when did a guy ever worry about dancing or dating 'above his level'?)
cuz other teachers dont want to draw attention to me by dancing with me? i've been sweating more, recently? but have been changing clothes and drying off too.
cuz other girls are prettier?
cuz i'm 'too fat' for some guys' taste?
i have body odour or bad breath? (am fresh out of the shower, scented body lotion, clean clothes, deoderant, just enough perfume, brushed teeth, floss, mouthwash, gum)

it's making me crazy....two weeks in a row, for one song every single other female dancer was on the floor, and i was standing on my own at the edge, with spare men around. that's never happened to me, even when i was a beginner.

i've asked for feedback, and no-one will give me any....so then i'm paranoid that it's something really bad. i made a plan to lead a woman every time a guy doesnt ask me, but theyre mainly such carthorses! it's like leading through treacle....and these are the girls who are getting asked to dance instead of me.

when i first came, i asked guys whenever no-one asked me, but i dont want to ask now, because i know they know i'll happily dance with them any time they ask me. i want dances, but i dont want to dance with people who dont want to dance with me/wont enjoy our dance.

i could never live anywhere that doesnt have a salsa scene, but effectively that's what's happening....there are dancers, but not for me. even the dances i am getting are spoiled...i cant let go/enjoy, because i'm becoming paranoid about my dancing. which will go into a downward spiral if i cant dance. if i cant resolve this problem - i'm giving it until xmas - i will be moving countries, which i otherwise really dont want to do.

help, please!!!! any/all suggestions and/or possible explanations gratefully received.

1. People can smell insecurity, just like dogs can smell fear
2. Ups and downs are natural, just ride the wave
3. Trying too hard when you do get asked will only make you unhappy and spoil the dance
4. Screw the whole lot of them, just ask men to dance. You are there for you, not for them, so take what YOU want

I'll add more general questions:
Did the ratio in the club/scene/city flip ? (from more leads to more follows)
Did the playlist change to less salsa ? (heavy merengue,bachata, reggaeton rotations could flip the ratio, see above)
Did the club become more of a meet market and less of a dance scene ?
Is there some kind of "inner circle" in the scene ? (obviously hard to answer that if you are not in it, a hint might be that "good" dancers seem to socialize more than dance unless a really good song comes on).

You sound so self aware, so chances are it has nothing directly to do with you. I say go ask the men you enjoy dancing with to dance. And if that doesn't work out then come to Toronto and we'll welcome a lovely, light follower who smells nice and is that aware, with open arms:-D

did you say before that you are teaching? possibly its intimidation (or a not short enough top ). you look vaguely familiar...i think i may have dance with you. have you been in london in the last 3 years?

nowhiteshoes said:

did you say before that you are teaching? possibly its intimidation (or a not short enough top ).

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Or maybe bad mouthed by other instructors. I am always surprised about the amount of gossiping and politics going on in salsa instructor circles

For example, in Germany my wife knew an instructor who started no to answer her greeting once she took classes in another competing school...

TrulyMadlyAmanda said:

when i first came, i asked guys whenever no-one asked me, but i dont want to ask now, because i know they know i'll happily dance with them any time they ask me. i want dances, but i dont want to dance with people who dont want to dance with me/wont enjoy our dance

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I think if you really want to dance and no one is asking, you're just going to have to do the asking. If they REALLY don't want to dance with you, then they'll say no. IMO asking and risking having your partner not enjoy the dance is better than not asking and not dancing at all.

Unrelated: what's treacle?

GForce85 said:

Unrelated: what's treacle?

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This




According the pedia of wick it's "a thick, dark sugar syrup produced during raw sugarcane refining[1], used chiefly in cooking as a form of sweetener. It has a distinctively strong flavour, slightly bitter, and a richer colour than Golden syrup, yet not as dark as molasses."

So now you know.

KP-salsa said:

This

According the pedia of wick it's "a thick, dark sugar syrup produced during raw sugarcane refining[1], used chiefly in cooking as a form of sweetener. It has a distinctively strong flavour, slightly bitter, and a richer colour than Golden syrup, yet not as dark as molasses."

So now you know.

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Is it the base of yellow, red or dark rum ? or no rum at all ?

TrulyMadlyAmanda said:

because i was dancing so much with one particular 'alpha' guy, that guys think i only want to dance with him?

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I think guys get into habit. If he's used to dancing with someone once a night, he'll continue to do just that and no more. If he gets used to not asking for a dance with a particular girl, he'll continue to do just that.

How often a guy would tend to dance with a particular girl generally gets decided during the first few meetings. If the guy likes dancing with the girl for whatever reason, he'll generally try to dance with her as much as possible. Most guys probably would recognize that after a certain number of dances (0, 1, 2, 3, whatever), the girl wants no more for that night. I don't think anyone is capable of always faking wanting more dances with the person they just danced with unless they really want it (and this is perfectly fine in my opinion). The girl will set the maximum number of dances very early - most likely during the first few nights.

Now if the girl is prone to dance a lot with a particular 'alpha' guy, the guys who did not get to dance with you will drop the maximum number of dances they will ask you - possibly to zero. So after a while, the number of guys among the regular crowd who would ask that girl could get quite small. This should not affect new guys to the scene - except at this point they might see the girl as being picky - even if she's not.

I could be wrong. I'm just making a conjecture based upon your description. In any case, that's my idea of the day for game theory of dancing.

I know this sounds incredibly, incredibly counter-intuitive...but maybe you're too light? I have danced with guys in the past who abhor that. If the girls that you're leading around feel like they take forever and they're the ones getting dances...there might be a reason why.

I'm not saying they're right, but I had one guy friend describe it as wanting to know I was there with him, and that if I was too light he couldn't feel me. It's just the preference of the guy, just as all girls have a preference to how light/firm of a lead they want.

Edie the SF highly recommends a five pressure connection. One that isn't so heavy you're leaning into each other but not so light that you have a lot of air circulation between your hands.

Just one more possibility, yeah?

Lola said:

I know this sounds incredibly, incredibly counter-intuitive...but maybe you're too light? I have danced with guys in the past who abhor that. If the girls that you're leading around feel like they take forever and they're the ones getting dances...there might be a reason why.

I'm not saying they're right, but I had one guy friend describe it as wanting to know I was there with him, and that if I was too light he couldn't feel me. It's just the preference of the guy, just as all girls have a preference to how light/firm of a lead they want.

Edie the SF highly recommends a five pressure connection. One that isn't so heavy you're leaning into each other but not so light that you have a lot of air circulation between your hands.

Just one more possibility, yeah?

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there's so much difference in a light to lead follower with no posture/tension/floppy arms and a light to lead follower who has good posture.

edit: this seemed a bit blunt but i was just 'thinking' out loud

edit 2: and welcome!

KP-salsa said:

This

According the pedia of wick it's "a thick, dark sugar syrup produced during raw sugarcane refining[1], used chiefly in cooking as a form of sweetener. It has a distinctively strong flavour, slightly bitter, and a richer colour than Golden syrup, yet not as dark as molasses."

So now you know.

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OH! Ok now I get the idea; thanks for the info

nowhiteshoes said:

there's so much difference in a light to lead follower with no posture/tension/floppy arms and a light to lead follower who has good posture.

edit: this seemed a bit blunt but i was just 'thinking' out loud

edit 2: and welcome!

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No, blunt is good. I also agree with this, it was just one suggestion. Mainly I brought it up because I danced with a long time (formerly beloved) male dancer and he gave me one of those loose noodle arm leads. It turns out a girl had said she didn't like his lead, it was too firm and so he was trying to loosen it up. Thank god he switched back to that beautiful soft body (rather than arm) lead he'd had before.

I think it's most likely that you're just so concerned about following at this moment that you're not having fun anymore. The point of dancing IS to have fun, something to share with the other person, and if you're that worried, you're not having fun, and if you're not having fun your partner is sure as heck not having fun.

Don't take it/yourself too seriously.

this seems really bizarre..but..its most likely that now the guys know you're a really good dancer so they're simply intimidated. if there are some that used to dance with you and they don't anymore its probably because they think you're bored with them or something in your actions lead them to make that idea up on their own.

this reminded me of a situation i had with a female in my scene. she was very harsh and critical with me but it was obvious that she REALLY wasn't aware of it. i stopped asking her to dance, got a lot better and eventually she was the one to ask me to dance. she's a good girl and had no idea what a simple comment caused (doesn't matter how friendly you think you're being if they already have their mind made up). the problem was with me, not her and its likely that the same thing is going on with you. you definitely have to do the asking now unfortunately.

btw, i'd really like to dance with you, there's nothing better than a "light" lady!!

TrulyMadlyAmanda said:

help! to give some background, i've been dancing for 13 years, been regularly asked to dance by some of the best dancers in the world, and always been told 'you're so light!'.

yet suddenly, i'm plague-woman.

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Lola might be right. Perhaps you are taking yourself to seriously?
Do you groove when you dance or are you still in learning/teaching mode. Dancing with teachers is intimidating. Even when you've improved enough to dance with non-teachers at their level it's still intimidating. You worry a lot about things going wrong and making her (in this case) look silly.

I don't know what the people in your area are like, whether they are serious or fun loving, but if you show that you know how to have a laugh on the dance floor maybe more guys will realise that they can dance with you without that feeling of being under scrutiny. From your posts you don't sound like the sort of person that takes themselves too seriously but you never know, your body language might be saying something different. You have 13 years of experience which equates to 13 years of formed expectations. Maybe they are translating into unconscious actions. Just a thought. Could be wrong.

nowhiteshoes said:

did you say before that you are teaching? possibly its intimidation (or a not short enough top ). you look vaguely familiar...i think i may have dance with you. have you been in london in the last 3 years?

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too many clothes, of course...! :doh:

i've been living in cairo since february and in havana for the 2 years before that, but i had a couple of months and the odd week in london (bar salsa monday/wednesday, SOS sunday and the odd ealing town hall friday + scala of course!). PM me your name/a photo in confidence if you like, perhaps we know one another?

thank you SO MUCH everybody for the rush of helpful suggestions. that's really lovely. so far, chr and hyh's suggestions sound the most likely, though everyone's contributions were really helpful - especially the invite to move to canada, lol. i have friends there, so after another 50 years of global warming, i'm there!

i also had a PM suggesting that maybe it's to with being recently single...interesting, as it's the only thing that's changed lately...

thanks again everyone - any more ideas, i'd love to hear them. :cheers:

It's a strange kind of reverse psychology - don't even think about your appearance/breath/etc because they have absolutely zero to do with it. The guys are expecting you to ask them - as if that is validation to them that they're good dancers. That isn't unusual when you're an exceptionally good dancer in the scene.

You're in a situation now where you need to do all the asking, because most of the guys in your scene are too afraid to ask you - they're not worried you'll say no, they're worried they won't provide you with a good dance.

That's my assessment from what you've described anyway.

Flujo said:

Lola might be right. Perhaps you are taking yourself to seriously?
Do you groove when you dance or are you still in learning/teaching mode.

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sorry flujo, i think you must have been posting this while i was posting my last - didnt see it before. i dont think so - last night a guy leaned forward against a pillar during a dance, and i ducked under his arm and pretended we were doing....ahem, something naughty. you have to know youre audience - he loves funny stuff - but the sillier the better for me. i never, ever, ever, ever, ever give guys advice on the dance floor. ever. that should be added to 'ways to never be danced with again - part 1, the male ego'.

what i'm hearing from everyone is i need to ask guys to dance. ok, will do and report back next tuesday. but if anyone says "no", i warn you, i'll cry... i think this is part of the frustration....we only have one night of salsa per week during ramadan, so if i dont dance every song, that's it for the week...

I used to ask for just about all my dances. I don't like standing and watching, so if nobody asks me, I just go and ask a guy myself. Then I realised that nobody was asking me because they all assumed I'd come and ask them if I wanted to dance with them. So they'd instead ask the girls who never ask men to dance... I'm just an intermediate follower, and I'd imagine it would be worse for a good follower, where the intimidation factor is also involved. Even worse if it's a good follower who's always seen dancing with one particular alpha-male.

I can't offer a solution... it seems to be a choice between continuing asking guys (at least you get your dances that way - I don't think you'd need to worry about getting no's) or waiting long enough (which is frustrating and plain depressing) to make the guys realise they need to ask you.