Salsa and ego

[squirrel]

How is the dance scene in your city? Are there a lot of arrogant dancers or is it mostly a friendly place?
Do you think Salsa encourages ego-maniacs? I mean, does it make you arrogant and rude?

[tj]

How is the dance scene in your city? Are there a lot of arrogant dancers or is it mostly a friendly place?
Do you think Salsa encourages ego-maniacs? I mean, does it make you arrogant and rude?

What’s weird about the scene is how I keep on bumping into the same personalities & issues everywhere I go.

There’s usually the Sharks vs. Jets thing where two rival studios have an underlying hostility towards each other.

There’s usually a bunch of know-it-all salser@s who insist on telling you how to dance as well as what’s most important and are analyzing everyone and their technique/style. They’re the ones who act like you couldn’t possibly know what you’re talking about when you state your opinion about something in the scene.

There are the experienced guys who prey on the beginner gals. Some legitimately can teach, a lot can’t.

There are more, of course, but I see the aforementioned stereotypes all the time – in at least 4 different scenes.

Then there’s everyone else who make up the majority –nice people just wanting to dance, but tend to get caught up in all the drama. This is why I keep coming back. I look to screen out the undesirables ASAP.

So to sum it up:

Most dance scenes are friendly for the most part. But there are definitely egomaniacs both male and female – dunno if this is the same as across the rest of society. It certainly feels like High School all over again!

[squirrel]

:) Yes, just like in highschool!
From the outside, it's a perfect world... people seem to get along just fine, they dance and have a good time! And on the inside, all that gossip and mischievousness and envy and fear... :( It's really sad...
If you can avoid it, you're lucky!
But you know what they say, one cannot be on the safe side, who's not on my side is against me! :lol: :lol:

[tj]

Lol - I hear ya, Raluca!

[peachexploration]

How is the dance scene in your city? Are there a lot of arrogant dancers or is it mostly a friendly place?
Do you think Salsa encourages ego-maniacs? I mean, does it make you arrogant and rude?
Hmm...the dance scene in my city? Depending on what you're looking for, the majority would probably say it's okay. This area is fairly new to Salsa. By new, I mean, it really started to get roots around 1999. But it is growing quite a bit.

Alot of arrogant dancers? Unfortunately, yes! And most of them have NO reason to be! The best dancers (which are few) in this area have no reason or desire to be arrogant. At least it shows in their dancing and how they treat others.

Do I think Salsa encourages ego-maniacs? No, Salsa has nothing to do with it. It's the people who encourage it! Does it make me arrogant and rude? Gosh, I really and sincerely don't think so. It breaks my heart because it's something I'm so passionate about and yet having trouble expressing/sharing the love of it with others.

[salsachinita]

I've been thinking about this a fair bit :? ........

It's certainly not salsa(the dance)'s fault.

What brought on the egos/attitude, is possibility due to a couple of things:

1. Salsa (as a dance) is not the easiest to learn, for most people (regardless of their cultual background). For those who may have invested vast amount of resources/energy to reach a certain proficiency level. A bit of an 'initiation' (think 'fraternity houses' :wink: )....which some people might feel that they have earnt the rights to be act above others.

2. Salsa (as a medium) facilitates opportunities to 'showcase' oneself. This factor alone attracts egomaniacs, or people who are otherwise unremarkable in other aspects of their lives (hence eager to prove themselves at the clubs).

3. Salsa (as a scene) can be a bit of a 'cult' (as observed by my friend Jenny)........just as any other 'pack' (or 'collective') situation, there's a tendency of some kind of pecking order/hierarchy/in-crowd/out-crowd to develope. Call it nature of human social behaviour :? ?

4. Salsa (as a microcosm) comess across like highschool, because it's more or less a closed environment (as highschool). Similar behaviours/occurance are present in all walks of life.......but in such closed environment it is way easier to observe.

That's just my 2 cents :wink: .

[squirrel]

Hmmm... I quite agree, SC...

And how do you guys think we can stop it?

[tj]

Hmmm... I quite agree, SC...

And how do you guys think we can stop it?

(Btw, nice post SC. I think you nailed it.)

One way to influence a smaller scene is to use peer pressure for good rather than bad.

What tends to happen is that some of the more experienced dancers get all snotty and exclusive. Well, with the typical turnover ratio of dancers coming and going within a scene, once you become part of the “in crowd”, you can start to suggest what you think is proper behavior and what’s not. I think we were able to change the Denver scene over the years so that it’s not as bad as it used to be.

Unfortunately, this doesn’t happen nearly as easily in a large scene. Too many personalities and too many good dancers (i.e. too many “in crowds”). And too many new faces.

[salsachinita]

(Btw, nice post SC. I think you nailed it.)

:oops: Thanks, TJ.

One way to influence a smaller scene is to use peer pressure for good rather than bad.

Exactly. I believe the word is positive concensus. This is my purpose here at SF, DF & out there at the clubs.

I figured to make things better, I need to start from myself. I need to set an example.

[peachexploration]

Boriken hits some good points here. :arrow: Appealing to Some of the Music (http://salsaforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=37)

[borikenSalsero]

I like to give people the chance to learn from their mistakes, as long as it takes, even if they never learn. Don't really care for fast change, I only care to see the effect of their attitudes when positive energy is introduced.

What I do like doing is creating an example by behaving as such. Little by little like minded people will react to the example and bahave a little nicer. The fight, for me, isn't one of when but rather of result. It can take as long as it wants to take but I rather not "pressure" someone into doing something they don't know how to correct. Changing a bahvior by "force" doesn't mean that they have learned and moved one, but rather hidden an emotion that needs addressing, we must first learn then move on. Hey if peer-pressure does it, then there is one more way to help too! :D

Even if I'm the only one being nice in the scene, I'll do so, even if it takes a 1000 years to see the first person to come about. I not only want a person to transform their thinking from bad scene to good scene, but I also want the person to realize that being an A$$ isn't all that great. My main concern is that they see the their current reality and a need to change it, for it will not only change the scene but also their lives in a more possitive note. Lesson learned, now, next step follows. :D

[Sabor]

egos .. hmm.. pretty relative subject..

being the 'devils advocate' so to speak.. almost everyone finds someone or a number of people egotistical to various degrees.. and surely.. like anywhere else some are.. but i found that also many aren't.. and that people get that impression because they dont understand or yet know the other person enough to interprit heir actions or attitude..

as there are people with egos.. there are even more with insecurities that make them judge others too quick or from minimal contact or just through observation that is biased by certain perceptions.. it is human and natural after all..

i have found out that the more u develop in the scene .. the more u become tolerant and less quick to form impressions.. these things dont really matter to u no more.. what matters is that u relax.. enjoy and have a goodtime with everyone and anyone u get into contact with.. there's just no room for negativety left .. just positive feelings and fun is on your agenda.. and then u find out that positivety goes much further as those around pick up on it .. its naturally contageous u know.. :wink:

negativety thrives on attention.. u neglect it .. its gona put itself out.. so i dont really think about who's egotistical or showy or stuck up etc.. i got no energy or time to waste here.. some beautiful salseras are out there looking for some dance floor passion.. gota go gota go!! :D

[peachexploration]

Hi Sabor. :) Welcome.

[MacMoto]

i have found out that the more u develop in the scene .. the more u become tolerant and less quick to form impressions.. these things dont really matter to u no more.. what matters is that u relax.. enjoy and have a goodtime with everyone and anyone u get into contact with.. there's just no room for negativety left .. just positive feelings and fun is on your agenda.. and then u find out that positivety goes much further as those around pick up on it .. its naturally contageous u know.. :wink:
I like your attitude :D.

[squirrel]

Sabor... I like your post!

[SDsalsaguy]

Welcome "across" Sabor! :D

[salsachinita]

Sabor :o :D .....!

*where's my 'notworthy' emoticon?*

[youngsta]

I agree with tj's impressions. My part in changing it in my scence is being available to anyone that wants to dance. I really didn't learn how to dance here in CO so I am not a clone of any local instructor. My style is fairly unique here so I just dance with whomever I chose and stay out of the whole clique deal. Works for me, doing my little part I hope new people in our scene see that not everyone is snob an stay around to help change things in their own way.

[tj]

I agree with tj's impressions. My part in changing it in my scence is being available to anyone that wants to dance. I really didn't learn how to dance here in CO so I am not a clone of any local instructor. My style is fairly unique here so I just dance with whomever I chose and stay out of the whole clique deal. Works for me, doing my little part I hope new people in our scene see that not everyone is snob an stay around to help change things in their own way.

Welcome across, R!

(I'm sending you a PM... gonna be in town this weekend)

[SDsalsaguy]

Welcome across, R!
Huh???

I thought he joined the SF two months before you, no? :? :? :?

[squirrel]

welcome, youngsta!

[youngsta]

I thought he joined the SF two months before you, no? :? :? :?
I did :lol: :lol:

[SDsalsaguy]

I thought he joined the SF two months before you, no? :? :? :?
I did :lol: :lol:
And now you have suirrel doing it too... even though you joined before her as well!!!

welcome, youngsta!

Me is confused! :?

[squirrel]

Well, haven't seen much of him lately... :wink:

[tj]

Oops!

:oops:


How about a "Welcome back!" instead!

[SDsalsaguy]

Well, haven't seen much of him lately... :wink:
How about a "Welcome back!" instead!
:lol:

Both of those work just fine and dandy... :lol:

[simona]

Interesting topic of discussion. I always wondered if other salsa scenes faced the same issues as the city I live in. What I have noticed that really sets the tone for a scene is the teachers. I feel that the people who decide to be teachers have a responsibility to create a positive, social atmosphere and get that message across to their students. In my town, almost all the teachers breed this attitude of competiveness, and it shows up on the dance floor when their students start showing up in clubs. The sad part is that the only folks to be added to the salsa scene in my town are those who agree with the attitude of the teachers. The fun folks drop out of salsa even before they get out to the clubs because they get so distasted with the "I must shine at all cost" mentality.

So how have I helped? By getting to one frustrated salsero at a time. Part of starting Rumbanana Salsa group was to get a bunch of folks together that share the same mentality about Salsa - to have fun. As a group, we infect the salsa scene with good-old-fashion social dancing and fun. It's slowly working. :lol:

[SDsalsaguy]

Way to go simona! If only we had a million more like you... :?