Natives vs. not

Somehow the native Cuban and Puerto Rican musicians are way more fun in live performances than even their compatriots who were not born and raised on either island.
Am I too hard on people who work hard at it but can't seem to deliver that natural flavor ? Is there something about growing up stateside or am I just biased ?

Wait until Fidel is gone and then 5 years more and not much will be left, sadly.

Totally disagree with the Non-native = unflavorful idea:
To name a couple:
From MusicofPuertoRico.com
Larry Harlow was born Lawrence Ira Kahn in Brooklyn, New York on 20 March 1939, into a musical family of Jewish-American descent. The young Harlow, affectionately known as El Judio Maravilloso (The Marvellous Jew), excelled at an early age at various instruments. The music and culture of New York’s Latino community led him to Cuba where he began an intense study of Afro-Cuban music.

From jimmyboschmusic.com
Jimmy Bosch was born and reared in Hoboken, New Jersey to a Puerto Rican family, Bosch’s Salsa Dura is both a testament to and an evolution of Puerto Rican musical traditions. Bosch continuously re-invents the music of a culture with roots in Africa and Spain by drawing upon an eclectic repertoire: the plenas of an agrarian Puerto Rico, the Afro-Cuban mambo, the Beatles, American folk tunes, and the New York Salsa of the 70’s informed by straight-ahead jazz and contemporary rock.

peachexploration said:

Totally disagree with the Non-native = unflavorful idea:

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I am not questioning the quality of the music of a Larry Harlow or Jimmy Bosch or Ocho y Mas or SHO or any other top tier NYC or other stateside band. But there is something that I have noticed that both Cubans and Puerto Ricans born and raised on their respective island have thats missing with them. These very good musicians from stateside barrios or music academies sound more clinical and detached. Even EP who is a fantastic musician feels detached to me. By contrast even a lesser artist who is a native of either isla brings something in that I connect to. Maybe its why they play and what it means to them, I don't know. All I know is its there. So I was just wondering if anyone else had noticed that it just feels different (even if the quality is lower) when the musicians are native.

bailar y tocar said:

peachexploration said:

Totally disagree with the Non-native = unflavorful idea:

Click to expand...

I am not questioning the quality of the music of a Larry Harlow or Jimmy Bosch or Ocho y Mas or SHO or any other top tier NYC or other stateside band. But there is something that I have noticed that both Cubans and Puerto Ricans born and raised on their respective island have thats missing with them. These very good musicians from stateside barrios or music academies sound more clinical and detached. Even EP who is a fantastic musician feels detached to me. By contrast even a lesser artist who is a native of either isla brings something in that I connect to. Maybe its why they play and what it means to them, I don't know. All I know is its there. So I was just wondering if anyone else had noticed that it just feels different (even if the quality is lower) when the musicians are native.

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Btw, I feel the same thing with jazz and blues musicians from New Orleans vs. the rest.

bailar y tocar said:

peachexploration said:

Totally disagree with the Non-native = unflavorful idea:

Click to expand...

I am not questioning the quality of the music of a Larry Harlow or Jimmy Bosch or Ocho y Mas or SHO or any other top tier NYC or other stateside band. But there is something that I have noticed that both Cubans and Puerto Ricans born and raised on their respective island have thats missing with them.....

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Never wrote that you were questioning the quality of music. I still disagree that being born in a specific place has anything to do with it. You may feel differently and that's okay. But to me, good music is good music, sabor is sabor regardless of where you're born. 8)

bailar y tocar said:

But there is something that I have noticed that both Cubans and Puerto Ricans born and raised on their respective island have thats missing with them.

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I think you're talking about the ingredient that got me listening to the old Cubans singing old son songs. The delivery is so sentida.

sweavo said:

bailar y tocar said:

But there is something that I have noticed that both Cubans and Puerto Ricans born and raised on their respective island have thats missing with them.

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I think you're talking about the ingredient that got me listening to the old Cubans singing old son songs. The delivery is so sentida.

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Not sure, its in the live delivery. That get up there and put out on stage thing.

bailar y tocar said:

Somehow the native Cuban and Puerto Rican musicians are way more fun in live performances than even their compatriots who were not born and raised on either island.
Am I too hard on people who work hard at it but can't seem to deliver that natural flavor ? Is there something about growing up stateside or am I just biased ?

Click to expand...

I guess it should make a difference, give a more genuine delivery if you´re singing or making music about your own experiences, with musical building blocks from your own back yard. The audience knowing their origin might play a part too, more credibility and trust, boosting the confidence of the musicians.

If your referring to stage performances I may agree with you but it's not fair to assume all. There are many natural PR and Cuban born artists who can sing but are just as dull on stage as any stateside PR or Cuban as there are great performances with low quality music and lyrics. Why don't you provide an example of who is great on stage and why vs another artist?

JaneMas said:

Why don't you provide an example of who is great on stage and why vs another artist?

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Here are specific comparisons and I am purposely limiting to one genre and one event although there are many other instances which would likely be challenged as unfair comparisons.

Disengaged, play straight away, not involved with audience:
Ocho y Mas, Chicago Intl. Salsa Congress, Feb 2008
SHO, CISC, Feb 2007
EP, CISC, Feb 2005

and then there is:

Engaged, involve audience, improvise and put out:
El Sabor de Puerto Rico, CISC, Feb 2007 & 2008
Roberto Roena y Apollo Sound, CISC, Feb 2008

I am not saying this proves anything beyond a reasonable doubt. I have seen EP in intimate club settings and he seemed more approachable but I am sure El Sabor or RR would top him in that setting, too.

I am not saying that any of the above are not good or don't put on a great show, but there is a difference between a concert that could be in a sitdown theater with 2-3 couples dancing in the aisles and the real deal that I witnessed and that I believe makes all the difference.

I see where you are coming from now. That's what I thought. For years I've said when it comes to concerts Salsa musicians aren't as creative as those in the English market. Alot had to do with lack of finances as well as lack of imagination. Could be one more reason why their non-spanish speaking audience did not expand as well as other foreign acts have. But I see this lack of stage presence and creativity on both Natives and Not.

Stage presence is likely the key. I have seen artists overcome lack of rehearsal and mistakes with charisma and stage presence and a funny thing happens: the audience enjoys it more. They come away thinking of how great and in the moment the show was when the artists were actually winging it.
Oh, and it saves money too, if a band doesn't have to rehearse as much because they are outstanding entertainers.

On the "saves money" they never really spent the money in order to "save". I'd love to see a great show with the storytelling and flash props, but it never ever happened in the past > native or not. I don't know what these guys are waiting for. If the want to make real money they need some creative people. Even Marc Anthony's concerts are bland. Stand up and Sing is all they do, including the ones you mentioned. yeah, I'm more critical than you when it comes to giving a good show. Few can pull off the Stand up and Sing act... and Marc is not one of them. La Lupe was able to pull it off as well as many boleros, Fado, ballad singers, but a singer who depends on the band needs more if they lack solo presence.

Ah, yes storytellers. The ones they would call griots in Africa. Great shows I saw very recently: Hugh Masekela in an intimate club with just 200 people and on another occasion Irvin Mayfield (from New Orleans) same deal. I wish there were salseros like them.

And sometimes even a lowly (underrated) local cover band can have good moments. This band that plays Saturday nights at a local salsa club normally plays Bamboleo's "Kimbara" with an extended (rumba) guaguanco intro. Last night they must have gotten bored with playing the same intro over and over every week, so they played the guaguanco intro of NG La Banda's "Tragico" instead.